Virginia Gun Owners Forum - VGOF

Due to certain circumstances I have had way too much time to engage a number of Anti 2A folks on line. Now, I understand that arguing on the WebberNets is the same as . . . well, that's not PC and, frankly, not very nice, so I won't go there. However, I am on a mission to try and beat some common sense into folks I care for, so on I plod.

Many of you have stated it, but until recently I simply did not understand the depths to which Anti-2A folks rely on ignorance and emotion. One discussion regarding the Second led to a discussion about the First and my antagonist actually posted; "Can we just strike the word 'God' from the Constitution and be done with it?" I asked of he had EVER actually read the Constitution. He responded; "Duh! Obviously not - who needs that sh!t?" Until that moment I actually regarded him as a rather intelligent guy.

The next most egregious example was just recently when some Libtard posted her outrage that a bill in front of the Virginia legislature would; "Force professors to carry handguns on campus." I asked is she had READ the bill. You can guess the answer. She then went on to babble about "Bowling for Columbine" and quoting stats from the Center to Prevent Gun Violence and I responded her arguments were not based on any verifiable facts. You can imagine the tirade.

Finally, I got into a furball with a gent that actually ran for a Delegate position from Loudoun COunty. The object of his derision was the proposal to allow CCP holders to carry a concealed sidearm on campus and into buildings. His argument was; "The last thing we need is a bunch of hormone addled 18 and 19 years olds running around a college campus with alcohol and stressed out from exams." A simple link to the CCP regulations for LCVA ended the conversation.

So, I have decided that, since all of these folks are blissfully ignorant, I will invite them for a coffee, on my dime, at the Cascades StarBucks. At 10 Am. On February 14th. Hopefully they do as much research on the significance of the date as they do on other "facts".

People still quote Bowling For Columbine? People still take Micheal Moore seriously? I guess I have been out of touch with the world for a bit...

Those folks don't want to be informed, and they don't want to reason out their position. They want to convert you to their cherished fantasy. I do the same thing, but I fear we are casting our pearls before swine.

"Never argue with a pig. It frustrates you and annoys the pig"

Author unknown

It isn't always hopeless. I have brought around one of my friends on firearm ownership. He still has no desire to own guns himself, but isn't against assault rifles anymore and believe or not I even convinced him that the NFA was an infringement on the 2nd amendment. All it took was a small history lesson about Lexington and Concord was not fought over a few muskets. But the Red Coats were actually marching to destroy the militia's cannons. Once he realized that the average citizen who could afford the cost was really not limited in firepower they could own.

You won't always be successful in enlightening those around you, especially those who are not even willing to listen. But when you finally do bring someone around to see great world of guns, it is worth all the hassel you have endured.

It pays off. Even if you can't convince the person your arguing with many of the "fence sitters" watch agreements between other people. There was a time I was a "fence sitter" on things like the AWB. After reading many arguments I researched and now truly understand the true meaning of the SA and how blatantly the AWB defies it(along with other similar bills)

Confound it, boy, why is it you young'uns have to talk in acronyms all the time? Some of us occasionally have trouble remembering what the WORDS mean.

I believe they are referring to:

NFA = National Firearms Act (which among other things restricted machine guns for the average Joe, restricted "short barreled rifles" (SBRs) etc...)

AWB = Assault Weapons Ban (Thank Clinton for regulating high-capacity magazines, and the eeee-vil bayonet lug on ARs, etc)

And back to the OP - at my current place of employment, a few of us often use a phrase "Wait, you're trying to apply logic??" - Seems to fit the Anti-Second Amendment type well, also...

OakRidgeStars wrote:"Never argue with a pig. It frustrates you and annoys the pig"

Author unknown

totes6 wrote:All it took was a small history lesson about Lexington and Concord was not fought over a few muskets. But the Red Coats were actually marching to destroy the militia's cannons. Once he realized that the average citizen who could afford the cost was really not limited in firepower they could own.

Far be it from me to screw up a good conversion of an Anti, but just a minor difference in the Red Coats mission, per the current National Park Service story... We were up in Boston last summer and dragged my daughter to Lexington/Concord. According to the NPS, the British mission was to recover (not destroy) two(?) cannons that had been stolen from their armory in Boston. A TV program we just happened to see while there also supported that story, as it documented attempts (apparently successful) to establish that a well worn cannon found recently in an estate was one of the two cannons originally lost in that pilfering, which they didn't quite do but they couldn't disprove it either.

BTW, since the Ranger/interpreter seemed to have a pretty good grasp of the history and of military matters, I asked about the citizens vs Regular Army mismatch and was told that the best analogy to present day would be if a unit of the regular U.S. Army were to be confronted by a National Guard unit. He also reminded our small group that many of the citizens who opposed the British that day were still British subjects, and had been in the British military and many had combat experience from prior service

Cheers!

dorminWS wrote:Confound it, boy, why is it you young'uns have to talk in acronyms all the time? Some of us occasionally have trouble remembering what the WORDS mean.

Sorry about that I gotta hold my acronyms back.

SA- Second Amendment
AWB- Assault weapons ban

KaosDad wrote:So, I have decided that, since all of these folks are blissfully ignorant, I will invite them for a coffee, on my dime, at the Cascades StarBucks. At 10 Am. On February 14th. Hopefully they do as much research on the significance of the date as they do on other "facts".

You will sit alone, Sahib.

OakRidgeStars wrote:"Never argue with a pig. It frustrates you and annoys the pig"

I believe it is "Never try to teach a pig to sing..." but the point is understood nevertheless.

The question I hear a lot when I talk about the AWB is "why do you need more than 10 rounds?", or "why do you need more than one gun?". I respond with "why do you need more than one pair of shoes?", or "if you only need $10,000 to get by for a yearly income, why do you make more than that?....you don't need to". They ask the wrong question. The point is it's my money, the fruits of my labor, and I can do what I want with it. It's NONE of your business what I do with it. If I don't harm you, why do you care?

I describe a scenario to them where they or a loved one is being assaulted or worse and most get the point about self defense and defense of others ,,Once they learn that the Cops are not there to protect them and they alone are responsible for it ,their tune changes and quickly,The ones who clamor about 10 rounds and that stuff are too far gone to mess with,, also they;re idiots,,,,,,, best we can hope is they stay home on election day,,,

However, I am on a mission to try and beat some common sense into folks I care for, so on I plod.

Many of you have stated it, but until recently I simply did not understand the depths to which Anti-2A folks rely on ignorance and emotion.

Until that moment I actually regarded him as a rather intelligent guy.

The next most egregious example was just recently when some Libtard

So, I have decided that, since all of these folks are blissfully ignorant

Good to bring that attitude into a conversation, I'm sure it helps.

And I am certain that quoting out of context helps you out.

KaosDad wrote:And I am certain that quoting out of context helps you out.

Quite in context, your obvious disdain for other peoples opinions shines through, and no doubt your audience picks up on it, and not surprisingly, they push back.

Sounds like you were looking for arguments and seem pissy that you got them, what did you expect? When you have nothing but insults to describe them, what other outcome could there have been?

No matter how good the message is, if the messenger can't deliver it, it will never be heard.

Kreutz wrote:

KaosDad wrote:And I am certain that quoting out of context helps you out.

Quite in context, your obvious disdain for other peoples opinions shines through, and no doubt your audience picks up on it, and not surprisingly, they push back.

Sounds like you were looking for arguments and seem pissy that you got them, what did you expect? When you have nothing but insults to describe them, what other outcome could there have been?

No matter how good the message is, if the messenger can't deliver it, it will never be heard.

Seems to me that it's rather difficult to infer the content of the conversations from the black and white text within the OP.

allingeneral wrote:Seems to me that it's rather difficult to infer the content of the conversations from the black and white text within the OP.

Not really, it obviously didn't go Kaos' way. Or they wouldn't be ignorant Libtards.

If you honestly treat people decently, they'll hear you out longer than they would someone with an obvious chip on their shoulder. If it wasn't visible from the get go, I'm certain it manifested quickly enough when his views weren't immediately accepted.

My wife hated guns, now she carries one. I won her over with love and respect, I didn't call her an ignorant Libtard that needed common sense beaten into her. Turned my ex-hippy father around too, same way, love and respect. Even got him to shoot when he came down here for the first time; he loved it. It also felt really cool teaching my dad something instead of the usual way around.

Had I gone the condescending route, what would have been accomplished?

If we're gonna push a fact based platform to help people realize the value of the 2A, its important to remember any push back you get is from the years of misinformation they've been fed.

It doesn't reflect on their intelligence or emotional level at all, and they deserve the same consideration you'd give to anyone.

Some are actively manipulated, like that Goddard kid. Smaller still are the active gun grabbers who can only be countered with facts and a smile.

Merely having an opposing viewpoint doesn't mean they deserve to be treated with disdain. You want to let the true gun grabbers look like the spiteful fools, not the other way around.

As with all things, be it selling goods or a viewpoint, honey works better than vinegar every time.