Virginia Gun Owners Forum - VGOF

Good morning! I'm pretty green to carrying and unfortunately at the time I do not qualify for a CHP. I received a DUI almost 3 years ago although I don't drink anymore. Therefore when I do carry, I must OC. I've OC'ed quite a few times yet I still feel unfomforatble somtimes. What are your opinons on OC'ing? I was wondering if anyone had any stories, poitive or negative when carrying in or around the Richmond area.

Oy vey. I've seen this type of question start a holy war on other sites.

There will be some who will highlight pros and cons of both OC'ing and CC'ing.

I favor CC'ing myself, for various reasons, but the most obvious one (to me) is simply being discreet about it. I would rather not have anyone know I'm carrying a gun and would rather not attract any attention to myself because of it.

I have never seen someone OC'ing around Richmond, other than at VCDL meetings.

TenchCoxe wrote:I favor CC'ing myself, for various reasons, but the most obvious one (to me) is simply being discreet about it. I would rather not have anyone know I'm carrying a gun and would rather not attract any attention to myself because of it.

Agreed. While open carry is a right we have, and I support anyone who wants to do it, I think it likely attracts far more attention than I would be interested in.

Understanding that you don't have an option besides open carry, I'd suggest selective carrying only when you felt you really needed to and to go with as moderate and unimposing-appearing a weapon and rig or holster as you can provide. I'd go for function and form over making a fashion or political statement. Public reaction to open carry can be quite surprised and curious in the urban and many suburban areas. The idea is self defense not invasion and reoccupation of the south land.

I also would invest in a good retention holster and suggest that you should consider taking some defensive/retention training.

It was only a few weeks ago that a guy in the greater Richmond area was open carrying in a convenience store and a 16 year-old kid came up behind him, grabbed his gun and shot him to death.

Is there a time limit after which the DUI drops off and no longer affects the right to concealed carry? If so and it is not an inordinately long time from now, wondering if it would be worthwhile just to wait it out. Current or former LEOs on this site may have information on the specifics.

clayinva wrote:Is there a time limit after which the DUI drops off and no longer affects the right to concealed carry?

Three years.

E. The following persons shall be deemed disqualified from obtaining a permit:

* * *

9. An individual who has been convicted of a violation of § 18.2-266 or a substantially similar local ordinance, or of public drunkenness, or of a substantially similar offense under the laws of any other state, the District of Columbia, the United States, or its territories within the three-year period immediately preceding the application, or who is a habitual drunkard as determined pursuant to § 4.1-333.

§ 18.2-266 is the DUI statute.

I highly reccomend you go and cary out the Open Carry.org forum. There are many Virginians that OC and do it with little to no issue.

http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/forum ... 0-Virginia

Just remember when your OCing your representing the whole gun culture. Always be respectful and be prepared to answer questions.

TenchCoxe wrote:I also would invest in a good retention holster and suggest that you should consider taking some defensive/retention training.

It was only a few weeks ago that a guy in the greater Richmond area was open carrying in a convenience store and a 16 year-old kid came up behind him, grabbed his gun and shot him to death.

Wow, I didn't see that article. I currently use a Serpa holster so that wouldn't be easy for someone to pull it off my hip.

Is IWB considered concealed if the majority is above the waist band and your shirt is tucked in? It seems to be a fine line.

MWhiteDesigns wrote:Is IWB considered concealed if the majority is above the waist band and your shirt is tucked in? It seems to be a fine line.

There was another thread recently about what it means to be concealed. The statute says it generally is illegal to carry a pistol "about your person" if it is "hidden from common observation." The court cases interpreting this indicate that a gun is not "hidden from common observation" if a person does not need to be in a particular, specialized vantage point to be able to see it and recognize that it is a gun. In other words, if someone standing next to you could look over and see it and recognize "that's a gun", I think you would have a good argument that it is not "hidden from common observation."

While I don't know that there is any bright line, pass/fail, yes/no on this, I would submit that as long as your shirt is not "bloused" over so that it obscures the butt of the gun, and as long as you're not wearing a vest or jacket that hangs over it, or carrying a backpack or something that hangs over and covers it, carrying a handgun in an IWB, but with the butt end protruding and clearly visible should not be considered "hidden from common observation." Again, because, for example, if you were standing in line at a store or something, anyone looking over at you would easily be able to see it and recognize right away that it's a gun. If it is not readily visible to the "common" observer, or is otherwise obscured "so as to disguise its true nature" - i.e., it's not clear that it's a gun - then you've got an issue and it probably would be considered "hidden from common observation."

Anyhow, my 2c.

TenchCoxe wrote:

MWhiteDesigns wrote:Is IWB considered concealed if the majority is above the waist band and your shirt is tucked in? It seems to be a fine line.

There was another thread recently about what it means to be concealed. The statute says it generally is illegal to carry a pistol "about your person" if it is "hidden from common observation." The court cases interpreting this indicate that a gun is not "hidden from common observation" if a person does not need to be in a particular, specialized vantage point to be able to see it and recognize that it is a gun. In other words, if someone standing next to you could look over and see it and recognize "that's a gun", I think you would have a good argument that it is not "hidden from common observation."

While I don't know that there is any bright line, pass/fail, yes/no on this, I would submit that as long as your shirt is not "bloused" over so that it obscures the butt of the gun, and as long as you're not wearing a vest or jacket that hangs over it, or carrying a backpack or something that hangs over and covers it, carrying a handgun in an IWB, but with the butt end protruding and clearly visible should not be considered "hidden from common observation." Again, because, for example, if you were standing in line at a store or something, anyone looking over at you would easily be able to see it and recognize right away that it's a gun. If it is not readily visible to the "common" observer, or is otherwise obscured "so as to disguise its true nature" - i.e., it's not clear that it's a gun - then you've got an issue and it probably would be considered "hidden from common observation."

Anyhow, my 2c.

That's exactly what my view of the situation was. Just wanted to gather others opinions as well. Thanks!

I open carry everywhere I go in Richmond and have never had any problems. I had a guy in Kmart ask if I were security and I explained about open carry in Va. Another guy in Kroger asked if I had to have a license to open carry so I explained to him as well. Open carry may attract attention but it also gives a chance to explain the laws that some are not aware of.

It definitely gives one a chance to educate the folks that want to know..Only ever had 1 numbnutted jackass with a minor problem and found ignoring him to be the best solution, All other instances were positive including a couple with law enforcement types.....OC is something I fully beleive in and the more people learn about it the better it will be all around for gun owners in general...

I don't carry, but it certainly doesn't bother me when people do open carry. It's crazy when stores and restaurants ban weapons from their premises. Keep in mind that you may be eligible to get a CHP once your DUI conviction is 3-years-old.

Just to be contrary - OC can - I'm not saying it WILL - but it CAN - make you a target...

To each his own, of course, but:

http://koin.com/2014/10/07/man-practici ... ed-of-gun/

And if you're carrying concealed, make sure it's actually *concealed*...

http://concealednation.org/2015/01/man- ... d-firearm/

Again, just trying to provide some additional info on the subject...

http://www.activeresponsetraining.net/t ... open-carry

I've seen one guy in Lowes with an XD hanging off his hip while herding his kids around the store. I would not want the distraction of kids while also having a gun out in the open where someone could try to grab it.

I conceal carry and I still try to be careful about how I stand/walk around others in a store.

I saw a guy in another store (don't remember where) open carrying a revolver one day.

I have a retired buddy who got really upset one time over two younger guys open carrying in an electronics store. He went on and on (tom me, later) about how unnecessary it was to open carry a handgun around in a store. About how unsafe it was, about how ridiculous it was, etc., etc., etc. I just let him rant because I know him well enough to know he won't change his mind.

I'm often amazed at the number of veterans, combat veterans even, who don't believe people should be able to carry a gun to defend themselves.