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Virginia to discontinue State Background checks?
Posted: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 23:05:31
by roccob1
Hi All,
I read on Free Republic today that Virginia may stop conducting state background checks for firearms purchases. As it read and I understand it, the new legaslature will vote on it during the next session. The argument is that it is redundent, and the Federal regulations will replace our state system.
Anyone know anything about this, and how it may affect firearms purchases in Virginia?
Re: Virginia to discontinue State Background checks?
Posted: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 02:00:08
by Diomed
It would be a good cut - the system costs the state money to run, and the only purpose it serves is to enforce the one handgun per month law. Kill the one a month law and it's superfluous. (Of course, if it's cut and the one a month law remains, we might wind up in a situation where dealers won't sell handguns to anyone without a carry permit.)
There are plenty of targets for anyone who wants to get rid of dumb gun laws - but this is one of two that would actually save the state money (the other being the machinegun registry), which is a big selling point nowadays.
If they ditch the state system they should move to make concealed carry permits NICS-exempt. You can then buy without doing the check every time, and as a bonus, you can buy guns from home like the old days, sort of.
Re: Virginia to discontinue State Background checks?
Posted: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 17:36:37
by ThereIsNoSpoon
I hear what you are saying about the costs but unfortunately I cannot get behind anything that concedes state jurisdiction to the Feds. I think the Feds should give up doing background checks, lower my federal taxes and leave Virginians to their devices. I think that this move is regressive.
Re: Virginia to discontinue State Background checks?
Posted: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 05:11:10
by VBshooter
I agree that no state should concede its rights over to the Federal Government... The fed needs to be yanked back to perform only the basic functions the Constitution allows it to ,not given more power
Re: Virginia to discontinue State Background checks?
Posted: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 10:01:22
by Reverenddel
AH! But there is the CATCH!
The background checks are FEDERALLY mandated! Remember! We didn't HAVE those until the "BRADY LAW", which stated you either had a waiting period, OR a background check! So we instituted our OWN since the Fed system hadn't gone online.
In effect? The Fed doing it would be because the Fed REGULATIONS!
Let them do it, and when that get's removed? There ya' go.
Re: Virginia to discontinue State Background checks?
Posted: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 11:38:54
by dorminWS
Eliminating Va. Sate background checks would make Virginians wholly dependent upon the feds to perform this function. I think anybody who trusts the feds with exclusive control of any function that can be used/abused to obstruct the acquisition of firearms is very foolish. The state can cut a great deal of fat out of the budget and never touch the background check system. I think it's entirely foreseeable and perhaps inevitable that the feds will announce cutbacks "nonessential functions" to address the budget deficit that would result in 6 month turnaround times on firearms background checks; and then try to pass a tax on guns to pay for THAT level of service.
Re: Virginia to discontinue State Background checks?
Posted: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 17:54:47
by widefat
dorminWS wrote:Eliminating Va. Sate background checks would make Virginians wholly dependent upon the feds to perform this function. I think anybody who trusts the feds with exclusive control of any function that can be used/abused to obstruct the acquisition of firearms is very foolish. The state can cut a great deal of fat out of the budget and never touch the background check system. I think it's entirely foreseeable and perhaps inevitable that the feds will announce cutbacks "nonessential functions" to address the budget deficit that would result in 6 month turnaround times on firearms background checks; and then try to pass a tax on guns to pay for THAT level of service.
What he said....
Re: Virginia to discontinue State Background checks?
Posted: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 19:15:58
by rlbellco72
widefat wrote:dorminWS wrote:Eliminating Va. Sate background checks would make Virginians wholly dependent upon the feds to perform this function. I think anybody who trusts the feds with exclusive control of any function that can be used/abused to obstruct the acquisition of firearms is very foolish. The state can cut a great deal of fat out of the budget and never touch the background check system. I think it's entirely foreseeable and perhaps inevitable that the feds will announce cutbacks "nonessential functions" to address the budget deficit that would result in 6 month turnaround times on firearms background checks; and then try to pass a tax on guns to pay for THAT level of service.
What he said....
I agree with them!
Re: Virginia to discontinue State Background checks?
Posted: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 12:21:11
by scott9050
This would go a long way towards me making private purchases only.
Re: Virginia to discontinue State Background checks?
Posted: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 19:58:53
by Kreutz
marked8 wrote:This would go a long way towards me making private purchases only.
Private purchase is the only way to go 9 out of 10 times. You save alot of $ and keep your private bizness private.
My usual wait for when I do buy from an FFL is something like 12 seconds...it pays to be the only person in the country with my first and last name lol.
Re: Virginia to discontinue State Background checks?
Posted: Wed, 07 Dec 2011 10:44:47
by ImmortalArms
It is a really bad idea for so many reasons, foremost surrendering firearm purchase "authorization" to federal government completely. I have heard many folks saying that background checks are taking longer and longer, but I have experienced the opposite over the last several months. They have shortened to no more than ten minutes and usually less than two in the last two weeks..this while the number of firearms purchases has climbed considerably.
Really the answer is repeal of the unconstitutional Brady law. Then there is no need for a state wide system.
Just another example of politicians legislating from emotion instead of from the Constitution.
With a new R majority here in VA this year, maybe we can remove a few of the ridiculous laws on our books as well (one gun, streetsweeper, "high cap" mag pistol OC in NOVA locales, MG registry, etc). GO VCDL!
Re: Virginia to discontinue State Background checks?
Posted: Wed, 07 Dec 2011 19:24:31
by lonestarag
rlbellco72 wrote:widefat wrote:dorminWS wrote:Eliminating Va. Sate background checks would make Virginians wholly dependent upon the feds to perform this function. I think anybody who trusts the feds with exclusive control of any function that can be used/abused to obstruct the acquisition of firearms is very foolish. The state can cut a great deal of fat out of the budget and never touch the background check system. I think it's entirely foreseeable and perhaps inevitable that the feds will announce cutbacks "nonessential functions" to address the budget deficit that would result in 6 month turnaround times on firearms background checks; and then try to pass a tax on guns to pay for THAT level of service.
What he said....
I agree with them!
The goods news is that their is a legal limit on gun check delays. The FBI only has 72 hours to find a reason to block a sale. After that, they must clear you.
Re: Virginia to discontinue State Background checks?
Posted: Wed, 07 Dec 2011 20:28:25
by ImmortalArms
Yes there is a limit, but many, if not most, dealers will not do the transfer if the system does not return a "proceed". The liability is just too great.
Re: Virginia to discontinue State Background checks?
Posted: Thu, 08 Dec 2011 00:27:14
by manisbad
lonestarag wrote:The goods news is that their is a legal limit on gun check delays. The FBI only has 72 hours to find a reason to block a sale. After that, they must clear you.
The state of Virginia is also held to the same 3 business days. But the comment you have about "they must clear you" is false. They have 3 business days to approve the transaction if not complete then the dealer may release the firearm without an approval number.
Like ImmortalArms says most dealers wont release with out an approval number. The FBI doesnt bring all transactions to a conclusion ie either approved or denied they just leave them in limbo. The state of Virginia will complete all transactions with either them being approved or denied even if it takes a week. So under the FBI system many dealers would lose sales due to the fact that the FBI doesnt approve or deny a sale they just push it off to the side.
Re: Virginia to discontinue State Background checks?
Posted: Thu, 08 Dec 2011 14:04:39
by SDChop
rlbellco72 wrote:widefat wrote:dorminWS wrote:Eliminating Va. Sate background checks would make Virginians wholly dependent upon the feds to perform this function. I think anybody who trusts the feds with exclusive control of any function that can be used/abused to obstruct the acquisition of firearms is very foolish. The state can cut a great deal of fat out of the budget and never touch the background check system. I think it's entirely foreseeable and perhaps inevitable that the feds will announce cutbacks "nonessential functions" to address the budget deficit that would result in 6 month turnaround times on firearms background checks; and then try to pass a tax on guns to pay for THAT level of service.
What he said....
I agree with them!
What they said.
Giving the authority to the feds will only make things more frustrating for gun buyers ... period. Longer turn around time, fees and tax to come im sure. A $2 state background with same day take home will be a $25 federal processing fee and you will receive notice in 72 hours to retrieve your firearm. In 72 hours the duck hunt begins to where your paperwork and firearm are
Re: Virginia to discontinue State Background checks?
Posted: Tue, 13 Dec 2011 03:14:17
by Diomed
dorminWS wrote:Eliminating Va. Sate background checks would make Virginians wholly dependent upon the feds to perform this function. I think anybody who trusts the feds with exclusive control of any function that can be used/abused to obstruct the acquisition of firearms is very foolish. The state can cut a great deal of fat out of the budget and never touch the background check system. I think it's entirely foreseeable and perhaps inevitable that the feds will announce cutbacks "nonessential functions" to address the budget deficit that would result in 6 month turnaround times on firearms background checks; and then try to pass a tax on guns to pay for THAT level of service.
We're already there. The VFTP uses the NICS database; NICS goes down, so does VFTP. All we're doing now is paying three times for a system that is more vulnerable to interruption than the federal system.
You can argue all you want about background checks, they are not going away any time soon. Unless, of course, you want to try to get Virginia to conform its concealed handgun permits to the requirements to be a permanent Brady state, so that permit holders can skip the check when buying a firearm.
Re: Virginia to discontinue State Background checks?
Posted: Tue, 13 Dec 2011 11:47:12
by dorminWS
Diomed wrote:dorminWS wrote:Eliminating Va. Sate background checks would make Virginians wholly dependent upon the feds to perform this function. I think anybody who trusts the feds with exclusive control of any function that can be used/abused to obstruct the acquisition of firearms is very foolish. The state can cut a great deal of fat out of the budget and never touch the background check system. I think it's entirely foreseeable and perhaps inevitable that the feds will announce cutbacks "nonessential functions" to address the budget deficit that would result in 6 month turnaround times on firearms background checks; and then try to pass a tax on guns to pay for THAT level of service.
We're already there. The VFTP uses the NICS database; NICS goes down, so does VFTP. All we're doing now is paying three times for a system that is more vulnerable to interruption than the federal system.
......................................................................
They may be using the NICS database, but my pet FFL guy tells me that a check through VA takes a lot less turnaround time than if he deals directly with the feds.
You can argue all you want about background checks, they are not going away any time soon. Unless, of course, you want to try to get Virginia to conform its concealed handgun permits to the requirements to be a permanent Brady state, so that permit holders can skip the check when buying a firearm.
Re: Virginia to discontinue State Background checks?
Posted: Wed, 14 Dec 2011 02:47:35
by Diomed
dorminWS wrote:
They may be using the NICS database, but my pet FFL guy tells me that a check through VA takes a lot less turnaround time than if he deals directly with the feds.
If your pet FFL is in Virginia, he's probably experiencing a longer wait with NICS because he's not supposed to be using it, and shouldn't be set up to access it. Virginia FFLs have to use the VFTP, I'm pretty sure evading it is a state crime. The only exception I can think of would be doing a check on a silencer transfer, since VA doesn't consider them firearms (and I'd want that in writing from the VSP first, I've had them tell me not to call those in but verbal orders are worth the paper they're written on).
Re: Virginia to discontinue State Background checks?
Posted: Wed, 14 Dec 2011 09:26:05
by AlanM
Diomed wrote:dorminWS wrote:
They may be using the NICS database, but my pet FFL guy tells me that a check through VA takes a lot less turnaround time than if he deals directly with the feds.
If your pet FFL is in Virginia, he's probably experiencing a longer wait with NICS because he's not supposed to be using it, and shouldn't be set up to access it. Virginia FFLs have to use the VFTP, I'm pretty sure evading it is a state crime. The only exception I can think of would be doing a check on a silencer transfer, since VA doesn't consider them firearms (and I'd want that in writing from the VSP first, I've had them tell me not to call those in but verbal orders are worth the paper they're written on).
I agree.
While living in Ohio I bought six different firearms from various gun shops and NEVER had a problem with the NICS check. Usually I would hand the clerk the 4473 and then wander around looking for anything else I might want to pick up at the same time and by the time I got back (maybe ten or twenty minutes) everything would be ready to go.
Oh, on a personal note, I know someone personally that used to work in the VFTP office in Richmond about 11 years ago when NICS was relatively new and at that time the VFTP checked NICS, NCIC, and about eight other databases. I have to assume that, by now, all that information is now all available through NICS.
Re: Virginia to discontinue State Background checks?
Posted: Wed, 14 Dec 2011 09:57:50
by dorminWS
AlanM wrote:Diomed wrote:dorminWS wrote:
They may be using the NICS database, but my pet FFL guy tells me that a check through VA takes a lot less turnaround time than if he deals directly with the feds.
If your pet FFL is in Virginia, he's probably experiencing a longer wait with NICS because he's not supposed to be using it, and shouldn't be set up to access it. Virginia FFLs have to use the VFTP, I'm pretty sure evading it is a state crime. The only exception I can think of would be doing a check on a silencer transfer, since VA doesn't consider them firearms (and I'd want that in writing from the VSP first, I've had them tell me not to call those in but verbal orders are worth the paper they're written on).
I agree.
While living in Ohio I bought six different firearms from various gun shops and NEVER had a problem with the NICS check. Usually I would hand the clerk the 4473 and then wander around looking for anything else I might want to pick up at the same time and by the time I got back (maybe ten or twenty minutes) everything would be ready to go.
Oh, on a personal note, I know someone personally that used to work in the VFTP office in Richmond about 11 years ago when NICS was relatively new and at that time the VFTP checked NICS, NCIC, and about eight other databases. I have to assume that, by now, all that information is now all available through NICS.
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This guy also has a security company that puts people onto properties that are subject to heavy federal regulation, and I think he uses NICS to do background checks. Maybe he figures if they're slow on a check that has someone's job hanging on it, they'll have a lower priority on some redneck buying a gun.
In any event, you guys can trust the feds to have it within their power to delay gun purchases through simple inaction if you like; but I think it ought to be avoided if possible.