Virginia Gun Owners Forum - VGOF

Posted: **Thu, 22 Sep 2011 09:20:04**

Saw this on the local news station's website. Interesting. Breif through the state DOE's proposed lesson plan, too. Thoughts?

NBC12 story: http://www.nbc12.com/story/15522389/gun ... ry-schools
VDOE lesson: http://www.doe.virginia.gov/boe/meeting ... item_b.pdf

By Deon Guillory
RICHMOND, VA (WWBT) - Gun safety classes could be coming to your child's elementary school.
The State Department of Education is expected to put in place a gun safety curriculum for elementary school students.
It touches on violence in video games and how lives are cut short by gun violence.
State code states that local school boards may provide firearm safety education programs for students in elementary schools — but the Board of Education must establish the way it's taught.
The curriculum provides background information on gun use, plus consequences when they are used the wrong way.

Posted: **Thu, 22 Sep 2011 10:03:48**

as long as guns are not villianized and its two sided.

Posted: **Thu, 22 Sep 2011 10:17:53**

One thing that immediately jumps out at me as being patently incorrect is the following statement from page ii of the preface:

Many individuals within a community carry guns. Students need to understand which community members may publicly carry guns. The Code of Virginia at § 18.2-308 states that those who can carry a gun for their occupation or recreation include law-enforcement officers, licensed security guards, and military personnel in the performance of their lawful duties, or any person having a valid concealed handgun permit or any person engaged in lawful hunting or lawful recreational shooting activities at an established shooting range or shooting contest.

Clearly, this statement excludes the Open Carry of a firearm by any citizen who is not legally prohibited from owning a firearm. I think this is an important distinction.

Is it worth sending an email to the person in charge of this curriculum? Cynthia.Cave@doe.virginia.gov

Posted: **Thu, 22 Sep 2011 10:30:56**

ABSOLUTELY WORTHWHILE TO CORRECT HER!

I think the problem we have is the guv'mint doesn't look to the gun community to ASSIST in training! They view us as the "outsiders", what they need to understand is we educate EACH OTHER, sometimes DAILY, and keep abreast of the laws BETTER than LEO's because it's something we feel strongly, and work towards.

Posted: **Thu, 22 Sep 2011 10:39:29**

I seem to remember this as a state law that the VCDL favored, but not 100% sure on that.

Posted: **Thu, 22 Sep 2011 10:47:40**

Not only would I send that person an e-mail, but I'd copy the Attorney General of the Commonwealth. I think it would actually be good to counter the irresponsible attitude towards guns and gun use that some of those blood-and-guts video games must surely foster in the minds of young folks who have no exposure to responsible gun use, as I did as a young person. But there is an enormous chance that it will become a platform for anti-gun propaganda. But why must they reinvent the wheel? What's wrong with the NRA's Eddie Eagle program? Isn't that still available? If not, what excuse is there to spend all that public time and money for people who may not be sufficiently informed and/or who may be subject to political pressure to pursue an anti-gun agenda or at least not to oppose one to write a program to do the same thing?

Posted: **Thu, 22 Sep 2011 10:55:00**

Reverenddel wrote:ABSOLUTELY WORTHWHILE TO CORRECT HER!

I think the problem we have is the guv'mint doesn't look to the gun community to ASSIST in training! They view us as the "outsiders", what they need to understand is we educate EACH OTHER, sometimes DAILY, and keep abreast of the laws BETTER than LEO's because it's something we feel strongly, and work towards.

I agree, so I sent her this:

Hello Ms. Cave,

First, I would like to thank you for your efforts with this curriculum. I have had an opportunity to read some of it, and I think offering firearms safety and responsibility to our youngsters is a step in the right direction.

I would like to point out an error in page ii of the Preface found at the following link:
http://www.doe.virginia.gov/boe/meeting ... item_b.pdf

" Many individuals within a community carry guns. Students need to understand which community members may publicly carry guns. The Code of Virginia at § 18.2-308 states that those who can carry a gun for their occupation or recreation include law-enforcement officers, licensed security guards, and military personnel in the performance of their lawful duties, or any person having a valid concealed handgun permit or any person engaged in lawful hunting or lawful recreational shooting activities at an established shooting range or shooting contest."

The paragraph above implies that these are the only legal reasons for anyone to possess a firearm. Virginia Code 18.2-308 only applies to CONCEALED firearms. This is an important distinction because anyone in Virginia who is not restricted from owning a firearm may carry it OPENLY (not concealed without a permit) in public. People who are restricted from owning firearms include convicted felons and persons who have been involuntarily hospitalized for mental health reasons.

Please let me know if you have any questions.

--
Thanks,
Rick

Virginia Gun Owners Forum - http://VGOF.net
Maglite Flashlights, Parts and Accessories - http://MagliteSales.com

####################################################################

Posted: **Thu, 22 Sep 2011 13:37:57**

I just skimmed through the curriculum. Talk about shoving 10 pounds of crap into a 5 pound sack.

Beyond what you mention above, what in H E double toothpicks do the political assassinations of MLK Jr, JFK and Lincoln have to do with GUN SAFETY for elementary students? I mean other than to show "guns are bad".

There is no balance there . How about some examples of people who died who WISH they had been allowed to own a gun, or wish they had a gun with them at the time? Meanwhile neither that nor the assassination thing belongs in a safety curriculum.

Posted: **Thu, 22 Sep 2011 16:15:23**

allingeneral wrote:One thing that immediately jumps out at me as being patently incorrect is the following statement from page ii of the preface:

Many individuals within a community carry guns. Students need to understand which community members may publicly carry guns. The Code of Virginia at § 18.2-308 states that those who can carry a gun for their occupation or recreation include law-enforcement officers, licensed security guards, and military personnel in the performance of their lawful duties, or any person having a valid concealed handgun permit or any person engaged in lawful hunting or lawful recreational shooting activities at an established shooting range or shooting contest.
Clearly, this statement excludes the Open Carry of a firearm by any citizen who is not legally prohibited from owning a firearm. I think this is an important distinction.

Is it worth sending an email to the person in charge of this curriculum? Cynthia.Cave@doe.virginia.gov

I would say that it is absolutely worth sending an email. that paragraph is present in the intro to every grade levels material. As you stated, it is an extremely important distinction that needs to be made. I worry that this becomes a platform for the anti crowd, but at least they mentioned the legality of concealed carry.

Posted: **Thu, 22 Sep 2011 16:31:10**

spadesofcolumbia wrote:as long as guns are not villianized and its two sided.

Yeah, good luck with that.

Posted: **Thu, 22 Sep 2011 16:36:51**

I call myself a constitutional libertarian. As such, I seriously question whether it is a proper role or function of the public schools to impose upon my children (or anyone else's) their mandatory version of a "gun safety" course. My experience has been that, in general and by and large, the public schools are run (or maybe "overrun" is a better term) by left-wing and progressive types, who almost universally are anti-gun, and in some cases verging on hoplophobic. So I strongly doubt the "gun safety" course curriculum would be the same as what I - or most of us here - would want it to be.

And then one must question the qualifications of whoever is going to teach this course. Are they going to use their standard, existing teachers? Or will they bring in NRA-certified instructors?

All in all, it sounds like a bad idea.

I need to do more research on this. I'd like to know whose idea this law was in the first place.

Posted: **Thu, 22 Sep 2011 16:40:25**

Skeptic wrote:Beyond what you mention above, what in H E double toothpicks do the political assassinations of MLK Jr, JFK and Lincoln have to do with GUN SAFETY for elementary students? I mean other than to show "guns are bad".

There is no balance there . How about some examples of people who died who WISH they had been allowed to own a gun, or wish they had a gun with them at the time? Meanwhile neither that nor the assassination thing belongs in a safety curriculum.

You nailed that one.

I tried to give the proposed curriculum some credit with their gradual introduction of actual firearms safety but during its repeated mentioning of "who is authorized to carry a gun" the ball is dropped with nary a single mention of the law abiding citizen who wishes to exercise their right to protect themselves and their loved ones.

Perhaps this was a topic covered at a more advanced level of the curriculum ... but I stopped reading after the gun violence plug with MLK Jr, JFK and Lincoln.

Posted: **Thu, 22 Sep 2011 16:45:33**

More....

The "Summary of Major Elements" states, among other things:

In addition to what to do if a student were to find a gun, the kindergarten through second-grade lessons address recognizing professionals who use guns for safety reasons and individuals who safely use guns in sporting events. The third- through fifth-grade lessons continue to focus on what to do if a student were to find a gun. The consequences of gun violence and personal responsibility for gun safety in the community are introduced.

So no room in the curriculum for any discussion or even acknowledgement of the fact that a lot of people own and carry firearms for legitimate self-defense. Only "professionals" who use guns for safety reasons, and individuals who use them "in sporting events." I really am sick and tired of the notion that it's ok for individuals to have guns only for "legitimate sporting purposes," and that only "professionals" can have them for "safety" (i.e., self-defense).

Posted: **Thu, 22 Sep 2011 16:48:28**

Man, as I read this, I'm finding more and more to dislike.

Teachers should be aware that gun safety discussions may elicit an emotional response in students. Responses may include a student sharing how many guns his/her parent has in their home ... .

Posted: **Thu, 22 Sep 2011 17:16:54**

Ha! I hadn't read that part yet!

TenchCoxe wrote:Man, as I read this, I'm finding more and more to dislike.

Teachers should be aware that gun safety discussions may elicit an emotional response in students. Responses may include a student sharing how many guns his/her parent has in their home ... .

Posted: **Thu, 22 Sep 2011 17:37:14**

I just sent a respectful and carefully worded e-mail to Ms. Cave. I addressed three concerns I have (apart from my general concern that I don't think the public schools should be delving into this area anyhow):

1. The proposed curriculum's incorrect reliance on Code § 18.2-308 as a list of "people who can carry a gun". I explained the whole difference between concealed and open carry to her;

2. The statement that teachers should ask students how many guns are in the house - which is highly objectionable;

3. The assassinations of Lincoln, JFK and MLK, Jr., although very important from a historical perspective, should be taught in history class and the whole discussion of "gun violence" has nothing to do with teaching young children "gun safety." The class just needs to teach kids to leave guns alone, leave the area and let an adult know. The criminal misuse of guns to murder people has nothing to do with teaching kids those basic safety rules.

We'll see if I get any response.

Posted: **Thu, 22 Sep 2011 17:48:33**

Looks like a bad idea......... I have no problem with a safety problem but this one is definitively political.

Posted: **Thu, 22 Sep 2011 18:22:12**

Rick Hope you don't mind I also copied your wording but added:

Also in the first paragraph of the Kindergarten section it says “Students will learn to identify individuals in the community who safely carry guns as a part of their job. Activity one entails discussing with students the duties of community helpers and why they would or would not carry a gun” Students also need to understand that responsible members of the community, such as fathers, mothers, grandparents, etc. carry guns to protect their family from violent criminals.

Students must understand that guns are not bad, they are a tool that when used properly serve a good purpose. For example a hammer when used properly can build a home, but used improperly can injure or kill some one.

John

Posted: **Thu, 22 Sep 2011 18:28:21**

John, of course I don't mind.

Posted: **Thu, 22 Sep 2011 19:44:06**

One of those "stories" (I call them "literary disasters") put a child hiding in the closet of his friends parents. Not only that, but the boy snoops through the closet and finds a gun.

One, when I was that age, I assumed that every parental closet contained firearms. Two, (and more importantly) why the hell is that kid snooping through that closet, anyway? I would have slapped my friend silly if I had found him in my parents room.

At any rate, I'm more concerned with where this fictional child felt he had a right to be, as opposed to what he found while there. I'm rather annoyed that the snooping is implied to be ok.

Virginia Gun Owners Forum - VGOF

Gun safety classes in elementary schools

Gun safety classes in elementary schools

Re: Gun safety classes in elementary schools

Re: Gun safety classes in elementary schools

Re: Gun safety classes in elementary schools

Re: Gun safety classes in elementary schools

Re: Gun safety classes in elementary schools

Re: Gun safety classes in elementary schools

Re: Gun safety classes in elementary schools

Re: Gun safety classes in elementary schools

Re: Gun safety classes in elementary schools

Re: Gun safety classes in elementary schools

Re: Gun safety classes in elementary schools

Re: Gun safety classes in elementary schools

Re: Gun safety classes in elementary schools

Re: Gun safety classes in elementary schools

Re: Gun safety classes in elementary schools

Re: Gun safety classes in elementary schools

Re: Gun safety classes in elementary schools

Re: Gun safety classes in elementary schools

Re: Gun safety classes in elementary schools