Virginia Gun Owners Forum - VGOF

Here is a link to an article I found in another forum on stopping power. Very interesting....

http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/node/7866

I enjoyed reading this report. It shows how stupid people are who argue about how much better a .45 is at stopping people. It doesn't make much difference what caliber it is, handguns suck. As long as its at least a 9mm you are at no disadvantage. Although the data on the .44 mag doesn't take into account the "Do you feel lucky" factor.

does this guy have something against the awesome stopping power of the 10mm?...didnt even take it into account.

spadesofcolumbia wrote:does this guy have something against the awesome stopping power of the 10mm?...didnt even take it into account.

I have a feeling there aren't enough incidents involving 10mm to get a reliable set of statistics... but preach on about the 10mm! I have a few and I'm sure I will be adding more 10mm to the collection

It would be interesting to see any set of statistics involving 10mm stopping power, but I have searched and just can't find any good stats for stopping power. I have faith in it though!

Interesting cool study. But I always think of it like this: Go with the biggest gun you can handle, afford to shoot, and carry practically. It's a completely personal choice. I don't think many guns are so small that they are literally worse than not carrying at all.

That's an interesting study; funny that the 22 and 44 mag had similar stats. I remember back when I took physics I studied a formula that would determine stopping power. Here's the formula that will determine the stopping power (foot pounds) of every gun and bullet you own.
I keep a chart of my ammo and as an example, I know that my different handgun calibers give me anywhere between 135 - 1400 lbs. depending on the load I'm using. As a comparrison, the AR15 sits around 1099 with a cheap 223 load.
As another comparison, an average golf iron will give you 148 lbs. of pressure.

I have a formula for recoil as well if anyone wants it.

All handguns suck!

Obviously he hasn't felt the power of a 44 Mag firing a Garrett Hammerhead +P round; 1436 lbs of pressure in your face!

meangene wrote:That's an interesting study; funny that the 22 and 44 mag had similar stats. I remember back when I took physics I studied a formula that would determine stopping power. Here's the formula that will determine the stopping power (foot pounds) of every gun and bullet you own.

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Stopping Power = (bullet weight in grains X muzzle velocity^2)/450400 

I keep a chart of my ammo and as an example, I know that my different handgun calibers give me anywhere between 135 - 1400 lbs. depending on the load I'm using. As a comparrison, the AR15 sits around 1099 with a cheap 223 load.
As another comparison, an average golf iron will give you 148 lbs. of pressure.

I have a formula for recoil as well if anyone wants it.

I agree, that is the formula for the kinetic energy in the bullet.....but that is not the same as "stopping power," which was the point of that (very good) article.

Without the kinetic energy, no one is going to get stopped. Unless they just get scared and run away without any shots being fired (which is always a possibility).

It's a great article and there are several ways to read all that data... for example, the 9mm, .40 and .45 all average more than 2 rounds fired until incapacitation - .38, .357 (albeit with Sig included) and .44 all averaged less than 2 rounds fired until incapacitation - so are revolver people taking more careful aim? A .38 bests the 9mm in all but # of people not incapacitated - so are semi-auto fans just not taking aim because they believe in spraying bullets? 2.3 number of people shot by 9mm vs .38, and a threefold increase in the number of hits - it would appear so... So one can make many arguments from the data... I'd like to see # of shots fired (which this leaves out) to see how many rounds of firing said caliber it took to hit the target...

To quote SgtBill it's not the caliber it's shot placement. That said I am a firm believer in the 45. I grew up shooting it and it is what I am comfortable with.

Always said a few fps, millimeters in size, or a few grains is purely academic; if its metal, and hitting you at or above the speed of sound; it's gonna hurt or kill you no matter what. Some calibers/loads are obviously more lethal than others, but they're all things I'd rather not have lodged in me.

Don't forget the damage (much surgeries needed and lifelong injuries inflicted) by Hinckley with his little .22 revolver did.

Cc Fan brought up a good point about rounds expended in incapacitation.

When I carried a revolver for CC, I practiced with it to the point of "second nature", I still do that with semi's, but the practice with revolvers included MUCH more time with reloading!

When you're aware of how long a few millisecond's are for reloading, your shot placement improves, because you're going to have to change shooting position for reloading with a revolver.

Might be my opinion, but I can tear thru some rounds in the Mustang, the XD, and the Glock, and reloading is a breeze. (left hand to bottom of right hand)

With the SP101? Yeah, you have to be PROFICIENT! Or it's costing precious time in reloading. (Stop, pop cylinder, thumb-to-thumb, twist speedloader, close cylinder with left pinky finger, continue)

As to "stopping power", after reading many articles, and watching shows on kinetic damage, it's just my opinion, but I think the psychological affects on the attacker make a difference as well.

If you shoot someone whose never been shot, and watched way too many movies, they possibly could go into shock MUCH faster than say someone whose caught a round or two, and realizes it hurts, but it MAY not kill you!

You have anatomical areas as well, such at the "T" zone on the head that shut people down like light-switches when you hit the "apricot". Or a shot to the heart which just puts the target into a stumble for a few seconds before the brain shuts down.

Arterial shots will still leave the attacker capable, but bleeding enough that motor skills are affected.

It's an interesting subject, it's also why I hunted for a long while... You actually SEE what the affects of a firearm can be on anatomy, plus fill your freezer with harvest yummy goodness.

Good subject.

.22 - .45 at close range like most incidents happen at it doesn't matter the small round will kill just as easily. However with stopping power nothing beats a shotgun, particularly one loaded with buckshot. Sure you lose a bit of mobility but it is a trade off for power.

Yeah I agree, a .22 can be very effective and I sometimes carry my little .22 during the summer months.

Picked up a Beretta Bobcat the other day, and all I can say is I'd hate to take eight Stingers to the face out of that lil' booger...

This is the ONLY gun forum that didnt have a thread like this descend into "9MM IS GAY YOU NEED .50 TO KILL PPLZ AT 80 YARDS!11!111 THATS WHY I DUAL WIELD THE DEAGLES!11!!"


Seriously, no one ever agrees (and its true) that a .22 is as lethal as a .45 at point blank range, a distance at which many real world pistol fights occur.

This is the ONLY gun forum that didnt have a thread like this descend into "9MM IS GAY YOU NEED .50 TO KILL PPLZ AT 80 YARDS!11!111 THATS WHY I DUAL WIELD THE DEAGLES!11!!"

Excellent Observation; though it would be cool to dual wield desert eagles.

thekinetic wrote:.22 - .45 at close range like most incidents happen at it doesn't matter the small round will kill just as easily. However with stopping power nothing beats a shotgun, particularly one loaded with buckshot. Sure you lose a bit of mobility but it is a trade off for power.

The lethality numbers may be close enough for Govt. work, but the % of people NOT incapacitated by .22, .25, and .32 is where those calibers fail.

meangene wrote:

This is the ONLY gun forum that didnt have a thread like this descend into "9MM IS GAY YOU NEED .50 TO KILL PPLZ AT 80 YARDS!11!111 THATS WHY I DUAL WIELD THE DEAGLES!11!!"

Excellent Observation; though it would be cool to dual wield desert eagles.

Your fractured wrists might disagree