American debt
Posted: Sun, 28 Aug 2011 09:18:53
http://dprogram.net/2011/08/28/economy-8-28-11/ An interesting theory on why the U.S is in debt. Your thoughts?
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Apparently the authors is not as well educated as he thinks? The current crop of bought out economists can't, but there are books on the subject which were written half a century ago. The Keynesian have their blinders on and every failure is just a sure sign that they needed to spend more. Spending yourself to wealth, brilliant.When I was growing up, finance was mother’s milk to me, especially as I was a bit of a math geek. But for my formal education, I was trained—rather rigorously, and in spite of my laziness—as a philosopher and a historian. This odd combination is why I have such a jaundiced view of economics: I don’t find economics particularly intimidating, or even particularly challenging—it’s just finance’s snooty but poor (and slightly daft) older cousin. History’s surprisingly ignorant and blinkered accountant. Philosophy and Math’s lightly retarded, Puritanically rigid, and altogether rather embarrassing spawn.
Now, it’s all good and fine for me to rant about how useless economics is—but these aren’t empty complaints on my part: I can point to a single, specific, monumental failing of economics—a failure in the discipline which pretty much proves my point:
The United States is going bankrupt—and economics cannot explain why.
Yes, definitely not as well read as he would like you to believe. Mises dealt with this flawed attack on economics in his treaties Human Action. In fact, the title gives it away. Before you can use scientific reasoning and logic you must first prove that those tools can be correctly applied to the problem. One of the very first sections in Human Action (I don't have my copy on hand so I can't cite it now) is the epistemology of economics; aka the theory of knowledge as applied to economics.Some schools of economic thought recognize that deficits are bad because they lead to bankruptcy, and that therefore fiscal budgets should be balanced so as to avoid them. But they do not explain why this is the case—they have no argument to explain why deficits happen in the first place. That these clever Austrians point to something that has happened before, and therefore infer that it will happen again if similar conditions are met is not an argument—it is an observation, like saying that the sun has risen countless times in the east, so it will likely rise again in the east tomorrow morning.
This dilemma is really just the ignorance and/or irrationality of people:wikipedia wrote:Discursive dilemma or doctrinal paradox is a paradox in social choice theory which states that aggregating judgements with majority voting might result in a self-contradictory judgement.
If any one person holds all three of those views they are usually contradictory as a whole. Economic analysis of the three would find that those actions are probably mutually exclusive. More government services requires money to pay for them; you can't also cut taxes and balance the budget unless the sum of the three is still true. Yes, democracy does tend to cause incoherent policies, but those policies can only exist for any period of time because of a fiat currency.Article wrote:You, me and Mary are in the middle of campaigning for our democracy’s budget for next year.
I am campaigning for the Balanced Budget Bill, which requires that our budget be balanced—and all three of us, wholeheartedly and without reservations, agree. So the Balanced Budget Bill sails through.
You are campaigning for the Lower Taxes Bill, which you obviously favor, and to which I also wholeheartedly agree. Therefore, the Lower Taxes Bill has a majority—and it too passes.
However, Mary is campaigning for the More Government Services Bill, to which which I also wholeheartedly agree, creating another majority—and it too passes.
You may say to me, “But your position is contradictory!” But I reply, “Certainly not!”
In fact, I did my civic duty: I listened to all the arguments, and I voted for all the bills. I think we should cut taxes—so when it came to a vote, I voted in favor of the Lower Taxes Bill, which passed. But I also want more government services—so when it came to a vote, I voted in favor of Mary’s More Government Service Bill, which also passed.
And all the while, I’m still in favor of my law, the Balanced Budget Bill, for which I voted.
Thus, as a group, we have an incoherent outcome: The majority of the group believes taxes should be cut—and at the same time, the majority of the group thinks the government should deliver more services to the people. All of the members of the group individually do not want a deficit, but as a group their incoherence leads to a deficit.
Dictatorships can have the same problem. People like being ignorant and illogical when it suits them. What the author should say is that democracies exacerbate the situation. Consider this:Article wrote:This is the democratic fiscal incoherence, a situation unique to democracies.
The paradox is the part where he left out that if you take that p and r are incompatible, that the incompatibility cannot be explained away, and that P != R, then if he changes his mind and believes "r 'might' be the case", then you cannot posit that R might be the case without inferring that P might not be the case.As with all paradoxes, an example is the easiest way to understand it—so here’s one:
Suppose there are three of us—you, me and Mary—standing around in the kitchen. Suppose that you and I believe that p is true, while Mary is sure down to her very bones that p is most definitely not true.
Mary is just one person—you and I are two. Therefore, a majority of this group believes p is true.
As I said, Mary doesn’t believe for a second that p is true—instead, she argues very convincingly that r is true. For the purposes of this example, p is completely incompatible with r; not contradictory—rather, incompatible: Symbolically, ¬(p ⋏ r).
Since Mary believes r is true, and p and r are incompatible, you therefore fervently argue with Mary about why r is most definitely not true—if r is true, then p cannot be the case. And you believe that p.
But as I listen to Mary, I come to the conclusion that r might well be true. I don’t believe that p and r are both true—because they are incompatible. I simply believe that r might be the case.
Therefore, a majority of this group believes r is true.
Which allows us to arrive at our paradox: A majority of the group believes p is true, a majority believe that r is true—but none of us as individuals believes that both p and r are true, because as I said before, p and r are incompatible.
However, as a democratic group, we believe that p and r are both true—which is incoherent.
This is the discursive dilemma.
ThereIsNoSpoon wrote:OK. First of all we are not a Democracy. I suppose we are at the congressional level, so I will concede that to the author.
The author conceded that the U.S. did very well managing its debt until 1975. So I don't think that being a Democracy/Republic necessarily sets you onto the road to default.
The reason we are in debt is because we are a debt based economy. Every dollar in our pockets and bank accounts originates from a loan of some sort. If the U.S. decides to start paying off the national debt we will experience deflation proportional to the debt payed off. If we woke up tomorrow and just payed off the debt right there, we would have extinguished the money supply with interest left over that we have no money to pay it with.
Talking about getting out of debt is a ridiculous endeavor without first reforming our monetary system to get away from a debt based economy.
And it doesn't matter whether it's Commodities based or Fiat. The only thing that matters is how the money gets into circulation. You either spend it in or you loan it in. Spend it in - no debt. Loan it in - you have debt.
Hard Asset vs Fiat is a discussion for another thread anyway and I don't want to get into it.
Agree to an extent, but try telling the government they can't print more fiat currency. That's one of the big benefits of a hard currency, it's a lot hard to create more of it. Interesting that the stagflation of the 70s and the debt go hand in hand with us officially going off the gold/silver standard.ThereIsNoSpoon wrote:OK. First of all we are not a Democracy. I suppose we are at the congressional level, so I will concede that to the author.
The author conceded that the U.S. did very well managing its debt until 1975. So I don't think that being a Democracy/Republic necessarily sets you onto the road to default.
The reason we are in debt is because we are a debt based economy. Every dollar in our pockets and bank accounts originates from a loan of some sort. If the U.S. decides to start paying off the national debt we will experience deflation proportional to the debt payed off. If we woke up tomorrow and just payed off the debt right there, we would have extinguished the money supply with interest left over that we have no money to pay it with.
Talking about getting out of debt is a ridiculous endeavor without first reforming our monetary system to get away from a debt based economy.
And it doesn't matter whether it's Commodities based or Fiat. The only thing that matters is how the money gets into circulation. You either spend it in or you loan it in. Spend it in - no debt. Loan it in - you have debt.
Hard Asset vs Fiat is a discussion for another thread anyway and I don't want to get into it.