Virginia Gun Owners Forum - VGOF

Eutaw wrote:Well hello from Herndon! I apologize; didn't see your location.

No problem neighbor.

Hey! I'll give Obama this one!

He chose to get PROOF instead of an "OOPS! Did I dooo thaaatt?" bomb dropping.

As to "Angry Muslims"? I haven't found that many that weren't a tad hostile towards the U.S., or U.S. Policies. Like West Coasters who come to the South, and then bitch about EVERY...THING!

Those who have moved to the South, and adapted to the culture, environment, and attitudes! WELCOME! GLAD TO HAVE YOU! HAVE SOME SWEET TEA, AND SIT A SPELL!

Those who haven't? Like the Muslims...

YOU MOVED HERE! MUST OF HAD A REASON! We ain't changin' for YOU! YOU need to ADAPT, or MOVE ALONG! Tired of the whining, complaining, and hating!

What happens to Western Europe will be important for us to watch and remember for the future. Merkel's "Multiculturalism has failed" and all of the major problems in France and Britain will eventually fall to us as well. Stay vigilant.

jim100 wrote:Of course the pic is fake. This whole thing is too perfect, first the birth certificate and now this, sorry but I don't think that he is dead. Unknown's pics prove it.

That's highly unlikely. It would be far too easy for Osama to disprove that with another video. Osama's goal was to undermine the West (gov, econ, etc.), claiming he is dead when he is not would play right into his hands. The exception that is if we cut some deal with him whereby he stays out of sight and cuts all ties with AQ in exchange for us to quit hunting him. That also is extremely unlikely give the amount of trust each side would have to have in the other; it would be far to easy to stab the other in the back! Also, could you imagine the backlash against Obama if that ever got out! No, it is nearly a certainty that he is dead. Claiming otherwise is extremely risky.

Now, the circumstances and details of that death likely deviate from the truth a little bit or a lot. Even if the War on Terror were over (it isn't), we wouldn't want to give away our sources and methods. That's almost certainly the reason for the delay for video and pictures. It's not about faking his death, but rather protecting how we accomplished it so that we can use similar sources and/or methods against other AQ targets in the future. It's anyone's guess as to what is or isn't true about the official story. It's entirely possible that the official story is all true, but key details have been omitted; we'll never really know and I'm not sure it really matters. IMHO, what really matters is 100% proof we got him. We need pictures/video/evidence.

The whole "intelligence" story could be true or false or anywhere in between. Gitmo intel may or may not have had anything to do with finding the courier, which may or may not be how we found him. The President could have requested Gitmo be part of the official story to get his supporters off his back about not closing it...he'll just claim that once he became aware of this kind of intel from Gitmo that's why he kept it open, but stopped the "torture." Whatever.

Same goes for operation story. Osama could have been dead long before the operation, it could have been staged, whatever. I'd be nearly 100% confident that some of the official story is false and that key details were left out. Like I said, it's about protecting future operations. Same with the burial at sea. It's very convenient and smart. It may or may not be true. It also may not be true yet. Whatever.

There are only two things I'm nearly 100% confident about, Osama's dead and the official story isn't the whole truth. It would be just too easy for our enemy to unravel a lie about Osama being dead. As for the partial truths or outright fabrications regarding the details of how it was accomplished? Meh, that's a given if you want the cloak and dagger stuff going on overseas so we can stop things before they get to the USA.

TheGodfather wrote:Turns out Osama's hideout is 800 yards from the Pakistani Military Academy (Pakistan's version of West Point). Allies my ASS!

It's extremely unlikely that anyone in the military/LE didn't know something about Osama's general whereabouts or contacts. It's unlikely that it was institutional though or detailed. Paying off an officer to tip an AQ contact about PK/US operations is one thing...having a large portion of the military know that's his house is entirely another. You also don't stay alive for 10 years by letting a lot of people know where you are.

However, you must also consider the cultural differences. PK was ruled by a dictator for a long time. It's not like the US where you can walk up to the Area 51 fence, take pictures of the "no cameras beyond this point" and tell your friends about the aliens you saw after a few beers. There are compounds like that all over the place. They could belong to any number of connected politicians, military, intel, etc. Even if you are in the military or other government office, if you ask too many questions or go prying into things, you're likely to not like the results.

Heck, even in the US, go take some pictures of bridges, nukes, or other sensitive installations and you'll likely spend a lot of time answering questions! What I'm trying to point out is that is seems obvious to us now, but that's really just hindsight. It's like noticing which buildings around the DC area do classified work. You know somethings up, but it's a bad idea to go poking around these days.

It would seem that the locals knew who has in the compound. I suspect the Paki military did as well.

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/ ... ighbour.do

Eutaw wrote:What happens to Western Europe will be important for us to watch and remember for the future. Merkel's "Multiculturalism has failed" and all of the major problems in France and Britain will eventually fall to us as well. Stay vigilant.

truth.

As a friend of mine pointed out to me recently. President Obama made a decision. That is it.

It was up to a bunch of SEALs (if you believe the press releases), supported by Army Aviation assets and I am sure with the Air Force watching from overhead ready to bring hell on earth with F15E Strike Eagles, A10 Warthogs and AC130 Spectres to name a few. They may have been across the border in Afghanistan, but the first birds would have been on station in a few minutes if necessary.

Then she pointed out that it was those very same Servicemen he was willing to use as a political pawn and withhold their paychecks a few short weeks ago. He is not the hero, those folks willing to go in harms way for others are.

As a side note:
They were pretty good about sigint security, it appears. No phone lines, no Internet access. Everything was carried in and out on portable data devices.
Announcing that it was a 'mother lode' of intelligence found at the site puts pressure on Al Q. It implies that -whether or not they actually DID find intel there - all operations and assests are suspect. Anything not ready to go would have to be aborted and started over from scratch. Anything ready/near ready to go would have to be considered VERY perishable and have timetables sped up to be used before our guys have a chance to decipher and close in. The threat probability goes up in the short term but then we should have a breather while Al Q reorganizes.
Just some thoughts.

OakRidgeStars wrote:It would seem that the locals knew who has in the compound. I suspect the Paki military did as well.

The idea that there would be someone living in a fortified compound next to their military academy and a bunch of active and retired officers and their families and the Paki military would not know who it is is ludicrous. They knew he was there. They probably knew when he took a dump and scratched his balls.

The Paki military was up to their ears in this.

TheGodfather wrote:And speaking of Pakistani muslims, my wife's manager is a Pakistani muslim. My wife said that yesterday she was uncharacteristically angry with everyone "for no reason". She was nasty with everyone and wouldn't leave her office the entire day. Draw your own conclusion about these "peaceful" muslims living here in the USA, but I sure as hell will never stop watching my back as long as one of them are around me.

On the other hand, if (for example) Russia were to mount a clandestine operation to assassinate a popular American figure, in America, how would you react? I doubt it would be a round of "way to go Ivan"s.

Perspective.

Diomed wrote:

TheGodfather wrote:And speaking of Pakistani muslims, my wife's manager is a Pakistani muslim. My wife said that yesterday she was uncharacteristically angry with everyone "for no reason". She was nasty with everyone and wouldn't leave her office the entire day. Draw your own conclusion about these "peaceful" muslims living here in the USA, but I sure as hell will never stop watching my back as long as one of them are around me.

On the other hand, if (for example) Russia were to mount a clandestine operation to assassinate a popular American figure, in America, how would you react? I doubt it would be a round of "way to go Ivan"s.

Perspective.

Apples to oranges. Mass murdering terrorists are not supposed to be popular national figures. If Bin Laden is a "popular Pakistani figure", then that shows the heart of the people - they are evil and wish us dead.


If a country were able to assasinate an American mass murdering terrorist, I would be more than happy.
(Trolls arrive to claim Bush is a terrorist in 3...2...1...)

Reverenddel wrote:MSNBC last night was saying "They killed an unarmed man." Kept saying it over, and over again.

The real question is why you would watch MSNBC in the first place, transfixed even on some moron's repetitious chants...

Either you are a guy who has not spent one day in uniform, or you're just being facetious ( I think it's the latter). Everyone knows, military background or not, that without the Commander in Chief's (CIC) approval no one would have been on the ground in Pakistan.

Now we find out not only did the CIC give the green light, but over 6 weeks he pushed his advisers towards that end. On the last day he went around the room asking go or no go to each member of his national security team. Everyone but one said let's bomb. Only Panetta said go. The President went off by himself. When he returned he said, the decision is WE GO! We must have proof that he is dead.

As a former individual who has advised the last 3 Presidents said yesterday, "it was the gutsiest, most courageous call he had ever seen a President make". He closed with trust me, I have seen numerous situations where Presidents hesitated, and in the end did not launch such an operation.

The tough calls are always 51% to 49% situations. Will it always happen this way, a stunning success? Of course not, but this President was willing to take that gamble. It was worth laying his entire Presidency on the line. That's how important he saw the 60% ( His intell guys were about 60% sure Bin Laden was there) chance to get Bin Laden. By any measure that's determined and instinctive leadership.

President Bush and VP Cheney were among the first to congratulate the President and his team.That showed a lot of class from both. In fact, President Bush has conducted his post Presidency in a most decent and classy manner. It's clear that all these men, the Bushes, Clinton and Obama are all keenly aware that they are members of the most exclusive club on the earth. And none of the rest of us have any idea what it means to be President.

Alas, I guess that doesn't apply here. Oh well, why expect anything else. I don't! I keep keep thinking that sooner or later ...never mind.

I do hope you all are having a good year so far.

Gat6

"The commander in chief in the end is responsible, he or she may delegate authority, but never responsibility"

VBshooter wrote:True, Check this article courtesy of our own little propoganda machine,The Virginia Pilot.. Supposedly he approved a mission to kill the SOB. Not sure if a US president advocating a murder is considered ethical or not... No matter ,,Right thinking people will realize that Dumbo ears had nothing to do with it, On a very positive note,It was local guys from here in VA Beach that got the smug bastard. Ony thing I can think of better is if they got a video of him getting his eyebrows parted in the middle...http://hamptonroads.com/node/598209

The location was a fortified compound in an affluent Pakistani town two hours outside Islamabad. The target was Osama bin Laden.

No $hit?? For real?? Well gee thanks for clearing that up for me,,Would have been a really bad week if you hadn't. Go take a pat on the back out of petty BS and have yourself a ball.

Right about now, that son a b***ch is 72 virgins short of a good party! As for the water burial, I hear the local whales swallowed him and threw him up on the shore because they didn't want to swim in the same water as he. Personally, I think this now all overblown theories. We got him.

They could always use more crab bait. Get in there Greenhorn!

Stay thirsty, my friends

That last post is awesome! Wish I had it to post.

ROTFLMAO!

I go back to my Hillbilly/Redneck ways when my Granpappy Roy would say: "Boy, Don't never wish no death on anybody... but some people needs killin'."

A guy walks into a bar ... Bartender says, "what'll you have?" The guy
says "I'll have a Bin Laden." The bartender says, "never heard of it,
how's it made?"

The guy says, "Oh, it's easy enough - two shots and a splash of water."