Myself and another VaGunOwnersForum asked to leave Walmart

[GS78]

[
I think we are all agreed that the OP should not have reentered the store armed (that is to say, not at all - keep your gun, go home and file a complaint).

..as for the sacrifice bullsh*t part of your petty response I will only add that if you knew you would be apologizing to me already. I stand by my statement that walking into a walmart on christmas eve, in COLS weather while everyone else is wearing a heavy covering, YOU IDIOTS had to have your weapons showing for what purpose? EVERYONE ELSE in the store had heavy coats and clothes on but you two "Highly trained NRA childrens instructors" had to prove to the WALMART CROWD that YOU were ALLOWED to CARRY GUNS....end of pathetic story.

Right, so does this forum have a block user feature??

I don't know, its not a chat room, so probably not. I am not your problem, you are. Ask yourself, did your actions that christmas eve have positive or negative effect on gun owners? Nevermind the legality or your interpetation of law, what did the general public, the door greeter and the manager of that walmart think of you and your friend? and will they all be more or less willing to express an attitude of understanding to the next person who wnats to OPEN CARRY? or did your actions actually hurt the next guys chances? Nevermind the cheerleaders on this site, the real question is how much did you do to advance the positive perception of gun owners in this situation?[/quote]
Let me fix it for you:

Ask yourself, did your actions in this thread have positive or negative effect on gun owners?

How is the next guy to have a chance when OCing in any store is a "stupid" idea? How were they to know ahead of time that the Walmart manager and greeter would react as such so as to cause a negative perception of gun owners?

There are people who hate guns period, open, concealed, used for hunting, or even the fact that citizens can own them period. They are ignorant and I don't run my life according to their bigotry and I don't recommend anyone else worry themselves about it either.

I've got a great idea. How about you turn in all your guns because the Brady people and the like hate the fact you have them. How do you think your owning firearms is impacting the view of us to those people? I think it is a stupid idea that you own guns because you offend Sarah Brady...

Kind of a stupid line of reasoning isn't it?


/sarcasm[/quote]what is "stupid" in my opinion is going out of your way to infringe on the rights of others to prove your own.

[gunderwood]

what is "stupid" in my opinion is going out of your way to infringe on the rights of others to prove your own.

You seem to be having trouble with quotes tonight.

What rights were they infringing on? Furthermore, you have completely failed to prove their intentions so claiming they were going out of their way is disingenuous at this point.

[GS78]

[
I think we are all agreed that the OP should not have reentered the store armed (that is to say, not at all - keep your gun, go home and file a complaint).

..as for the sacrifice bullsh*t part of your petty response I will only add that if you knew you would be apologizing to me already. I stand by my statement that walking into a walmart on christmas eve, in COLS weather while everyone else is wearing a heavy covering, YOU IDIOTS had to have your weapons showing for what purpose? EVERYONE ELSE in the store had heavy coats and clothes on but you two "Highly trained NRA childrens instructors" had to prove to the WALMART CROWD that YOU were ALLOWED to CARRY GUNS....end of pathetic story.

Right, so does this forum have a block user feature??

I don't know, its not a chat room, so probably not. I am not your problem, you are. Ask yourself, did your actions that christmas eve have positive or negative effect on gun owners? Nevermind the legality or your interpetation of law, what did the general public, the door greeter and the manager of that walmart think of you and your friend? and will they all be more or less willing to express an attitude of understanding to the next person who wnats to OPEN CARRY? or did your actions actually hurt the next guys chances? Nevermind the cheerleaders on this site, the real question is how much did you do to advance the positive perception of gun owners in this situation?

Let me fix it for you:

Ask yourself, did your actions in this thread have positive or negative effect on gun owners?

How is the next guy to have a chance when OCing in any store is a "stupid" idea?
I never said carrying in any store was stupid, I said open carrying at walmart on christmas eve was stupid, you know thats what I said and yet you trend to misrepresent? interesting.




How were they to know ahead of time that the Walmart manager and greeter would react as such so as to cause a negative perception of gun owners? They claimed to open carry in this store regularly .Maybe thats the real problem.




There are people who hate guns period, open, concealed, used for hunting, or even the fact that citizens can own them period. They are ignorant and I don't run my life according to their bigotry and I don't recommend anyone else worry themselves about it either.

Thats a nice sentiment, however it is also very childish.


I've got a great idea. How about you turn in all your guns because the Brady people and the like hate the fact you have them. How do you think your owning firearms is impacting the view of us to those people? I think it is a stupid idea that you own guns because you offend Sarah Brady..


First show me proof that I offend Sarah Brady. Now your post is ridiculous.
Kind of a stupid line of reasoning isn't it? Yes and I am glad you pointed it out so I didn't have to.

/sarcasm[/quote]what is "stupid" in my opinion is going out of your way to infringe on the rights of others to prove your own.[/quote]

[GS78]

what is "stupid" in my opinion is going out of your way to infringe on the rights of others to prove your own.

You seem to be having trouble with quotes tonight.

What rights were they infringing on? Furthermore, you have completely failed to prove their intentions so claiming they were going out of their way is disingenuous at this point.

Do anti gun people have a right to shop in walmart with a feeling of security no matter how false? Do other people have any rights at all even though they might no agree with you?

[moss20]

This Walmart location makes it as hard as possible to purchase a firearm from them, due to lack of firearm education for their employees. My wife was very frustrated after her experience this past summer.

I only OC, and wish more people had the guts to do so. If more people OC'd, it would become a more common sight to the general public instead of a surprise. I have OC'd in that Walmart before no problems.

I refuse to get my CHP, due to having to pay a bribe to gain a right I already have from the 2A, and is being infringed by unlawful tyrants.

[GS78]

This Walmart location makes it as hard as possible to purchase a firearm from them, due to lack of firearm education for their employees. My wife was very frustrated after her experience this past summer.

I only OC, and wish more people had the guts to do so. If more people OC'd, it would become a more common sight to the general public instead of a surprise. I have OC'd in that Walmart before no problems.



from the original post:
"we had both legally open carried at that Walmart numerous times before."

So, Moss if you and these two had open carried numerous times before , what was so different about Christmas Eve?
I refuse to get my CHP, due to having to pay a bribe to gain a right I already have from the 2A, and is being infringed by unlawful tyrants.

from the original post:
"we had both legally open carried at that Walmart numerous times before."

So, Moss if you and these two had open carried numerous times before , what was so different about Christmas Eve?






See this whole thing is evolving into a strawman argument. Open carrying does not take any "guts" to do whatsoever, none. Carrying a gun at all takes no guts whatsoever.NONE.


The OP actually said he was denied the ability to protect himself through this whole process, that proves no guts.NONE. If you need a gun to protect you at walmart or anywhere, you need much more than a gun, you just don't realize it.

[gunderwood]

How is the next guy to have a chance when OCing in any store is a "stupid" idea?
I never said carrying in any store was stupid, I said open carrying at walmart on christmas eve was stupid, you know thats what I said and yet you trend to misrepresent? interesting.

Technically that isn't what you wrote, but...you write this and then the next line is:

How were they to know ahead of time that the Walmart manager and greeter would react as such so as to cause a negative perception of gun owners?

They claimed to open carry in this store regularly .Maybe thats the real problem.

So which is it? I don't expect a consistent or coherent response.

There are people who hate guns period, open, concealed, used for hunting, or even the fact that citizens can own them period. They are ignorant and I don't run my life according to their bigotry and I don't recommend anyone else worry themselves about it either.

Thats a nice sentiment, however it is also very childish.

No, it's called liberty and freedom. As long as I'm not harming you I expect you to mind your own business. There are people who have a problem that I drive a Honda or that I live in a "backward" state like VA or that I own firearms or whatever. There are haters ever where, you seem to be one of them, and I choose not to define myself by your bigotry. That's hardly childish.

I'll tell you what is childish, thinking you know how to run other peoples lives better than they do. Congrats.

I've got a great idea. How about you turn in all your guns because the Brady people and the like hate the fact you have them. How do you think your owning firearms is impacting the view of us to those people? I think it is a stupid idea that you own guns because you offend Sarah Brady..

First show me proof that I offend Sarah Brady. Now your post is ridiculous.
Kind of a stupid line of reasoning isn't it? Yes and I am glad you pointed it out so I didn't have to.

/sarcasm

what is "stupid" in my opinion is going out of your way to infringe on the rights of others to prove your own.

It is the same rational you are arguing and it is absurd and foolish...thus, the sarcasm tag?


P.S. I really wish you learned how to use the quote tags properly, no wonder you can't keep straight what you have said let alone what others post.

[gunderwood]

what is "stupid" in my opinion is going out of your way to infringe on the rights of others to prove your own.

You seem to be having trouble with quotes tonight.

What rights were they infringing on? Furthermore, you have completely failed to prove their intentions so claiming they were going out of their way is disingenuous at this point.

Do anti gun people have a right to shop in walmart with a feeling of security no matter how false? Do other people have any rights at all even though they might no agree with you?

As expected, you have a very warped idea of what rights are.

[gunderwood]

This Walmart location makes it as hard as possible to purchase a firearm from them, due to lack of firearm education for their employees. My wife was very frustrated after her experience this past summer.

I only OC, and wish more people had the guts to do so. If more people OC'd, it would become a more common sight to the general public instead of a surprise. I have OC'd in that Walmart before no problems.



from the original post:
"we had both legally open carried at that Walmart numerous times before."

So, Moss if you and these two had open carried numerous times before , what was so different about Christmas Eve?
I refuse to get my CHP, due to having to pay a bribe to gain a right I already have from the 2A, and is being infringed by unlawful tyrants.

from the original post:
"we had both legally open carried at that Walmart numerous times before."

So, Moss if you and these two had open carried numerous times before , what was so different about Christmas Eve?

They noticed and took offense?

See this whole thing is evolving into a strawman argument. Open carrying does not take any "guts" to do whatsoever, none. Carrying a gun at all takes no guts whatsoever.NONE.

No one has claimed that but you. So yes, you are arguing a strawman...it is clear you really don't understand the concept though.

The OP actually said he was denied the ability to protect himself through this whole process, that proves no guts.NONE. If you need a gun to protect you at walmart or anywhere, you need much more than a gun, you just don't realize it.

WTF does "guts" have to do with it? Been reading the Washington Post too much and bought in the whole wild west propaganda and such? Honestly, at this point it is clear you have issues and are projecting them onto these two fellow gun owners. We call this psychological projection and you need help, so here is a link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection

Once again, you are presuming to make decisions about where and how these two citizens should carry or live there lives. Congrats, you're an authoritarian.

Edit: Considering the whole projection thing, what's the status of your "guts?"

[dontcallmeradio]

If you indeed had so much "training" you would have known it was a foolhardy thing to enter into that store open carrying in the first place. It was cold out right? what were you wearing? a t-shirt? nope, .most likely a winter coat, but you had to expose your weapon, why is that?

Maybe he didn't want to ask his government for permission to do something that should be a right. Maybe he can't CC. I OCed every day for 2 winters with big coats when I was 19-20. Perhaps he wasn't even wearing a coat at all; the trip from the heated car to a heated store is a short one.

OCing is hardly a tactical disadvantage. The vast majority of criminals aren't looking to get in a gunfight. There are plenty of documented circumstances where an openly carried firearm has prevented a crime from happening, and certainly many more that aren't documented.

I think we are all agreed that the OP should not have reentered the store armed (that is to say, not at all - keep your gun, go home and file a complaint).

..as for the sacrifice bullsh*t part of your petty response I will only add that if you knew you would be apologizing to me already. I stand by my statement that walking into a walmart on christmas eve, in COLS weather while everyone else is wearing a heavy covering, YOU IDIOTS had to have your weapons showing for what purpose? EVERYONE ELSE in the store had heavy coats and clothes on but you two "Highly trained NRA childrens instructors" had to prove to the WALMART CROWD that YOU were ALLOWED to CARRY GUNS....end of pathetic story.

Right, so does this forum have a block user feature??

I don't know, its not a chat room, so probably not. I am not your problem, you are. Ask yourself, did your actions that christmas eve have positive or negative effect on gun owners? Nevermind the legality or your interpetation of law, what did the general public, the door greeter and the manager of that walmart think of you and your friend? and will they all be more or less willing to express an attitude of understanding to the next person who wnats to OPEN CARRY? or did your actions actually hurt the next guys chances? Nevermind the cheerleaders on this site, the real question is how much did you do to advance the positive perception of gun owners in this situation?

it wasnt my intention to advance the positive perception of gun owners, i needed gift bags for presents i wasnt able to wrap....i would guess the door greeter and manager were educated by their office on what they did wrong. tacweapon and myself have been to Walmart since and we havent had a problem. why are you damned angry dude? i still maintain youre a commie. and you need to keep youre mouth shut about what you "think" of other people....but iim sure think is an overstatement for you. you are quite the douchebag.

[cigarmanva]

And threads like this are why we will continue to fight uphill to win battles, we can't even agree to stand up for each other. "you don't need that you can't hunt with it" vs the ebr crowd and the long standing "cc vs oc" fight. I don't gentleman carry, I just don't want the hassle most days, I want to go about my business and move on with my life, but i respect and support those that do. I have several friends who OC daily with nearly no interactions of interest. Why or how someone carries is of no concern to me, cc, oc, sloppy cc, I don't care. What I care about is this stupid in fighting we have going on, we're all on the same team here people, we all want the same thing.

two of our very own members are treated like criminals and we want to argue about stupid poop rather then trying to make sure things like this don't happen again....

[Yarddawg]

GS78, We get it. You do not want to OC. That's ok. At least you admit your short coming. Honestly, given your responses in this thread (including the childish name calling), it scares me to think that you may own weapons of any type!

If you had your way, no one would be able to OC. We get it. Thankfully, you don't get to have your way on this issue.

Now please, move on. The more that you comment, the worse you are getting.

The secret to digging a hole, is knowing when to stop.

[dontcallmeradio]

I think its more fun than anything to watch him rant about something has has no clue about. For the last time, I wasn't attempting to stir up trouble by carrying my pistol. I wasnt wearing a coat. I had on khakis, a nice button up shirt, (tucked in) and a down vest. None of which would cover my gun. I make it a point to not wear a winter coat to have my gun exposed so that it DOESN'T look like I'm trying to "put myself out there". GS78, get over yourself. We know you dont like OC and obviously you have a problem with tacweapon and/or myself. I just love how you somehow think you're the end all be all authority on what I was thinking that day.

PS: I still think youre a Commie, GS78....and you more than likely have several forms of the gay....and you more than likely voted for OBAMA....

Did I win yet?

[gunderwood]

And threads like this are why we will continue to fight uphill to win battles, we can't even agree to stand up for each other. "you don't need that you can't hunt with it" vs the ebr crowd and the long standing "cc vs oc" fight. I don't gentleman carry, I just don't want the hassle most days, I want to go about my business and move on with my life, but i respect and support those that do. I have several friends who OC daily with nearly no interactions of interest. Why or how someone carries is of no concern to me, cc, oc, sloppy cc, I don't care. What I care about is this stupid in fighting we have going on, we're all on the same team here people, we all want the same thing.

two of our very own members are treated like criminals and we want to argue about stupid poop rather then trying to make sure things like this don't happen again....

+1

It doesn't matter what our personal preferences are. These two guys made a reasonable and legal decision to OC at the time, we should support them for that. The one made a bad decision to go back in CCing; he admitted it wasn't the brightest idea and hopefully someone learned something.

[gunderwood]

why are you damned angry dude?

This is a reasonable question...perhaps it should be phrased differently, but reasonable given the discussion so far...

i still maintain youre a commie. and you need to keep youre mouth shut about what you "think" of other people....but iim sure think is an overstatement for you. you are quite the douchebag.

This is not. We have very intense debates, but there is a difference between a factual statement about what was posted vs. name calling. This is meant to be an insult rather than a forceful debate. I'm not a moderator, nor is this my site, but I suggest we stay away from these kinds of attacks.


I'll use myself as an example:

No one has claimed that but you. So yes, you are arguing a strawman...it is clear you really don't understand the concept though.

This is a forceful statement. A stawman has a definition and GS78, IMHO is misusing it and I state it in as such. His misuse appears to be a lack of understanding concerning the concept. At the very least his idea was not developed well and I have failed to understand the "strawman" he is complaining about.

WTF does "guts" have to do with it? Been reading the Washington Post too much and bought in the whole wild west propaganda and such? Honestly, at this point it is clear you have issues and are projecting them onto these two fellow gun owners. We call this psychological projection and you need help, so here is a link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection

This I admit this is tip toeing the line. I am poking the tiger a bit, but the following are IMO factual:

1. The diatribe against OC that GS78 has been posting is similar in rational and vitriol as what the WP usually posts for general gun editorials. Not all, but generally.

2. Psychological projection is a real "disorder" or problem. GS78s whole argument for OC being stupid, in that store or on that day or in general, is based on some weird concept of "guts" or aggressiveness. IMO, he is projecting this onto these two gentlemen, but he could be right...we don't know because we weren't there. All we can do is take their word for it and until I have some reason to believe otherwise about these two gentlemen, I defend them. Even though OC is not normally my choice...it doesn't matter, it was a reasonable and legal choice for them to make at the time they made it.

Once again, you are presuming to make decisions about where and how these two citizens should carry or live there lives. Congrats, you're an authoritarian.

This is an important one because I use a classification and it may appear to be name calling. IMO, we should never be afraid to admit what something is or isn't. There are two important distinctions here. First I prefaced the classification with a reason and second I use a classification which is specifically applicable give the posts.

The first difference is I explained why he was being authoritarian. Name calling isn't useful, classification is. I didn't call him a name to make offense, I stated his posts were being authoritarian and why. Yes, I framed it a less than perfect way and perhaps I should have done better.

Second, there is nothing in his posts which suggest any particular affiliation with communist, etc. He opinion is generic and implies no system or approach. Thus, I used just such a classification; it was not without thought, it was the closest thing I know of to what he was expressing. There are political implications and definitions, but this isn't a political thread. I.e. The authoritarian comment is regarding his mindset, not his politics.


We all can do a better job of keeping it civil. I personally don't mind forceful debate, but we can keep it mostly civil.

[gunderwood]

PS: I still think youre a Commie, GS78....and you more than likely have several forms of the gay....and you more than likely voted for OBAMA....

This isn't the decorum I think we should have here. GS78s posts in this thread are bad enough. Rick allows us to have very intense debates, but I think this is abusing the privileged and isn't useful for the site and its purpose. Let's not abuse it so Rick wants to take it away.

Remember, debate forcefully, but keep it civil as best as you can.

[ProShooter]

Seems like this thread has run its course and is no longer useful or productive. Name calling and insults are no way to win a debate.

For every story we see about someone who open carries and how it stops a robbery, there's another story about someone OC'ing and becoming a victim of crime because they don't pay attention. Some people OC and have outstanding situational awareness, while others OC and I could walk right up and snatch their gun in a heartbeat. Some people have the most expensive guns with lasers and flashlights and gadjets, and they can't hit the range wall let alone the target. Some people carry a 5 shot, no frills .38 revolver and they are deadly accurate. Some people make an effort to follow the laws and then effect change for the laws that they don't like. Some people say "concealed is concealed and damn the law".

Personally, I don't care how someone carries. The fact that they carry at all is what's important to me. We're all the same, yet we're all different. We can disagree intelligently and debate our points without silliness and namecalling.

[zephyp]

PS: I still think youre a Commie, GS78....and you more than likely have several forms of the gay....and you more than likely voted for OBAMA....

This isn't the decorum I think we should have here. GS78s posts in this thread are bad enough. Rick allows us to have very intense debates, but I think this is abusing the privileged and isn't useful for the site and its purpose. Let's not abuse it so Rick wants to take it away.

Remember, debate forcefully, but keep it civil as best as you can.

Quite right. Ad hominem attacks are not cool. Can it and keep it civil or the thread will be locked...

[LFS]

Seems like this thread has run its course and is no longer useful or productive. Name calling and insults are no way to win a debate.

But it was quite entertaining to read.

Congratulations to Gunderwood on his debating skills... it makes me wonder if he was on his highschool debate team.

[OakRidgeStars]

Seems like this thread has run its course and is no longer useful or productive. Name calling and insults are no way to win a debate.

Agreed. Thread is now locked.