SgtBill wrote:[ Sgt. Bill's reply
More like 18 inches to 3 yard's up to 7 yard's and most bad guy's don't just run away. They are too high or to drunk or just too plain stupid. You do not extend your arms with your weapon in hand in a close combat shoot out. The proper training will teach you the use of the speed rock shooting position. I don't know about any other people on this board but I do not run away from a fight or a shoot out, I would not nor will I present my back to someone for a target. That's why I made it to the ripe old age of 63. Ok I have said enough.
Bill
Good discussion!
........ .....(swiping one hand with the other).....done, and done. From 18 inches that person is already in the kill zone without drawing a weapon, from farther out, Its just gravy.
I have to agree with you, but I am getting older now and I like to let my finger do the talking as I don't move as well as I once did. Can you not hear the grass hopper at your feet. LOL
Bill [/quote]
I know what you mean sarge, but attitude will usually carry the day when the sh*t hits the fan.... most Bad guys are so shocked when they are suddenly on the recieving end of a good beating that they loose all ambition to complete their criminal intentions....just my humble opinion.... (by attitude I really mean ruthlessness)
'those who hammer their guns into plows , will plow for those who don't'
"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act."...George Orwell
SgtBill wrote:What do you concider low to moderate speed's. A well constructed hollow point need's at least 1,000 feet per second to get reliable opening upon contact with body fluid.
Bill
Does that apply to .45ACP? My understanding was that they only approached that speed with +P loads.
Expansion depends on several factors including the speed the bullet is traveling, the construction of the bullet, and the density of the object struck. I would argue that there are some rounds that expand "reliably" bellow 1,000 fps but not too much bellow that and of course "reliably" is subjective. Frankly that is why I like the 45 ACP even if it doesn't expand it it does a lot of damage. Even the best hollow points moving a relatively high speeds can fail to expand (usually when the hollow point becomes clogged with clothing). In my opinion it is better to have something that will work well in less than ideal situations; lets face it if you need to use a gun things aren't going your way.
As far as the range of using a handgun. I have no numbers to back it up but I was always taught the 3-5 rule. Meaning an average gun fight is at 3-5 yards, last 3-5 seconds, and uses 3-5 bullets. I don't know how accurate that is but it sounds about right to me.
Well, obviously, I'm an idiot, so I'll leave this discussion to you.
I never said you were an idiot, but real life experience is a hell of a lot better then book learning. I am sorry if I made you fell that I thought you were an idiot.
Bill
Well, that's certainly how it came across! I do agree completely with you, however, which is why my comments came from people with lots of real world experience. I don't call that book learning. I call it taking good advice and sharing it with others.
.....(swiping one hand with the other).....done, and done. From 18 inches that person is already in the kill zone without drawing a weapon, from farther out, Its just gravy.
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