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Re: Virginia to end CCW reciprocity with 24 states
Posted: Wed, 23 Dec 2015 16:40:04
by MarcSpaz
If we can prove that an Elected Official or an Appointee have lied to pursue a political agenda, I good argument for Recall or indictment can be made, yes.
Re: Virginia to end CCW reciprocity with 24 states
Posted: Wed, 23 Dec 2015 18:56:46
by kelu
In this case is probably easy (well, with some work) for someone to compare the requirements state by state, and if at least one is disputable, then the whole thing starts to smell and can be taken down.
Unfortunately I don't speak legalese to help.
Re: Virginia to end CCW reciprocity with 24 states
Posted: Wed, 23 Dec 2015 20:42:51
by MarcSpaz
I checked both Florida and PA. They both are equal to Va in, most cases. Where they dont, Fl and PA exceed Va requirements. It all political. We just need a plaintiff.
Any volunteers?
Re: Virginia to end CCW reciprocity with 24 states
Posted: Wed, 23 Dec 2015 21:08:58
by seeknulfind
So many excellent thoughts here, my own may pale by comparison but I'll chime in anyway.
As some have noted this is as much an attack on Virginia citizens as it is those of other states.
There may be some silver linings here.
1) The AG and the governor have declared open season on us - now it is our turn. I, for one will sign and/or circulate any reasonable recall petition. I certainly believe this action is worth pursuit on the grounds that he is certainly violating the spirit, if not the letter of the law. And I think a case can be made for violating the letter of the law.
2) We could see this as an opportunity to push back. Let's face it cc permits are bs. Why not rally to eliminate them all together.
As Rep. Mike Pitts in NC said “Felons and domestic abusers already do (carry concealed), this (NC legislation) simply recognizes your constitutional right combined with two federal Supreme Court rulings.”
They want to talk about "sensible gun laws"? Okay, bring it on:
Overall gun crime is down while gun ownership is up - WAY up. To me this says "sensible gun laws" would mean LESS gun laws.
Now there is that problem of more mass shootings. I DO thing something should be done about that. Hmm. Let's see there have been more mass shootings during this current president's reign than in the previous 5 presidencies. So for the good of the country, Congress SHOULD do something - they should impeach the president and convict him. God knows there are more than enough grounds! And as concerned as the prez is, he should resign immediately. While this may not solve the problem - it sure would be a good start.
While we are at it, let's put some pressure on Congress to require national reciprocation, or better yet ban states from preventing citizens from carrying concealed across state lines.
I'm sure there are many more rights we can and should push for. I hate to say it but there is one lesson we should take from the left - keep chipping away at it until we have our full complement of what is rightfully ours. THEY have been ever so willing to steal a right here and a liberty there until we find ourselves where we are today. Let's turn the tables.
Andy
Re: Virginia to end CCW reciprocity with 24 states
Posted: Wed, 23 Dec 2015 21:12:08
by cwfunrider
Mike May is in our neighborhood. He ran for commonwealth attorney this last election. Sadly he lost but perhaps I could reach out to him. Our kids go to school together. This is total BS and nothing more than overreach.
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Re: Virginia to end CCW reciprocity with 24 states
Posted: Wed, 23 Dec 2015 21:20:19
by GregVa
So does anyone know whats the best state to get a non resident permit in for NC,SC, and other southern states? I know Utah is the best, but whats the next?
Re: Virginia to end CCW reciprocity with 24 states
Posted: Wed, 23 Dec 2015 22:07:37
by MNMGoneShooting
GregVa wrote:So does anyone know whats the best state to get a non resident permit in for NC,SC, and other southern states? I know Utah is the best, but whats the next?
Depends on what your frequent states you go into are.
I'd go after the states that are impacted that you frequent. For me, that's Florida. I still am stuck with South Carolina though - I would have to Dearm/Disassemble to go through their state unless I want to go after getting a permit there as well.
Re: Virginia to end CCW reciprocity with 24 states
Posted: Wed, 23 Dec 2015 22:26:31
by Quigley
MNMGoneShooting wrote:GregVa wrote:So does anyone know whats the best state to get a non resident permit in for NC,SC, and other southern states? I know Utah is the best, but whats the next?
Depends on what your frequent states you go into are.
I'd go after the states that are impacted that you frequent. For me, that's Florida. I still am stuck with South Carolina though - I would have to Dearm/Disassemble to go through their state unless I want to go after getting a permit there as well.
It's legal to keep a loaded gun in your vehicle in SC without a permit
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Re: Virginia to end CCW reciprocity with 24 states
Posted: Wed, 23 Dec 2015 22:31:53
by GregVa
Thanks, I guess the best thing is to get a Utah permit. Also work on that recall.
Re: Virginia to end CCW reciprocity with 24 states
Posted: Thu, 24 Dec 2015 00:55:42
by Mindflayer
Re: Virginia to end CCW reciprocity with 24 states
Posted: Thu, 24 Dec 2015 08:20:16
by Swampman
We all need to start writing to our local papers to get the word out. I'll start with The Warren Sentinel and Northern Virginia Daily. Others need to follow suit. The more letters we can get published the better. If you don't get published at first keep sending until you do.
I've been guilty of resting on my laurels. No more.
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Re: Virginia to end CCW reciprocity with 24 states
Posted: Thu, 24 Dec 2015 11:59:50
by MarcSpaz
Guys and Gals ! Call your Delegates and Senators and tell them to support this measure to stop the Governor and the AG!!!
http://lis.virginia.gov/cgi-bin/legp604 ... 1+ful+HB12
This will force recognition of all states permits and allow us to maintain reciprocity with the states we currently do!
Re: Virginia to end CCW reciprocity with 24 states
Posted: Thu, 24 Dec 2015 12:11:55
by Reverenddel
Done!
I'm going to compare state by state the regulations, and rules for CCW's in those states to Virginias, and write them in a letter.
No inflections, or hyperbole. STRAIGHT... FACTS!
if someone doesn't call him on it, it's our OWN fault!
Once more, the Azzhat General is betting we're gonna "calm down, and it'll blow over."
LET US NOT FORGET THIS!
Re: Virginia to end CCW reciprocity with 24 states
Posted: Thu, 24 Dec 2015 12:20:07
by SHMIV
Upon a quick look at that amended bill, I think that maybe they should remove the last sentence of section A.
Or maybe, just start from scratch, and write a bill that recognizes a conceal carry permit from any jurisdiction within the United States.
Best yet, do away with a need for a permit, and let people carry their firearms any way they see fit, without having to beg permission and pay a fee to carry discreetly.
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Re: Virginia to end CCW reciprocity with 24 states
Posted: Thu, 24 Dec 2015 12:47:30
by MarcSpaz
Just sent this message to my Delegate and Senator.
I am writing you today to ask you to support HB 12 to amend and reenact § 18.2-308.014 of the Code of Virginia. I know you are a strong supporter of the Second Amendment and the Virginia Constitution. However, I also know it is important that you know the will of the people.
I am deep concern for Attorney General Mark Herring’s decision to revoke Concealed Handgun Permit and Concealed Weapon Permit reciprocity with half of the United States. After careful review of the Code of Virginia, I do realize that §18.2-308.014 does authorize Colonel Flaherty and AG Mark Herring to collaborate to determine whether states meet the requirements to qualify for reciprocity. However, it is imperative that the House and Senate take back their delegated power to legislate, so they can honor and represent the people who elected them to do so. This is needed to prevent one or two individuals from taking unilateral action that does not reflect the will of the people. On these same premise, I would ask that you work to urge both Colonel Flaherty and AG Mark Herring to reconsider their position.
Some supporting facts…
1.) Virginia is a “Right to Carry” State. Anyone that the AG thinks he could be protecting us from could simply openly carry their weapon. His proposal does nothing to prevent crime.
2.) By definition, criminals break the law. They don’t care what the AG says. A criminal will still carry a gun. This only disarms good, honest citizens, who deserver the right to defend themselves.
3.) After review of the requirements for resident and non-resident qualifications for permitting in the Common Wealth of Virginia and comparing our statutes to multiple other states that are listed to have their reciprocity revoked, I have found that several states do in fact statutorily meet… and in some cases exceed… what is required by Virginia law to obtain a permit. This fact in and of itself could completely nullify the legitimacy of the actions of the AG and the Superintendent, as the Code is very specific as to what the qualifiers are. This begs the question, what is the motive of this action?
4.) The current code and the action Colonel Flaherty and AG Mark Herring want to take, violates the Virginia Constitution and the US Constitution with regard to the People’s Right to “keep and bear arms” by allowing arbitrary rules to be created by biased individuals who have been place in power to represent the Common Wealth, not the people.
5.) The action Colonel Flaherty and AG Mark Herring want to take also violates the US Constitution and the “Privileges and Immunities Clause of the United States Constitution” which states, "The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States." By preventing reciprocity, the people of Virginia lose their rights in half the States in this country. Inversely, half the citizens of the US lose their rights in Virginia.
In closing, I have reason to believe this is 100% political and has nothing to do with saving lives or enforcing law. The Governor, via the AG, is performing an act of political payback to Mike Bloomberg for buying the Governor’s Election. The AG is not a law maker, does not represent the people (rather the Common Wealth as the head Attorney), but he is putting the lives of VA residence at risk when we travel, and travelers lives at risk in VA. Plus, the political and economic backlash from alienating 25 states is not going to be good either.
As always, I greatly Appreciate your time. I hope you and your family have a very Merry Christmas.
Sincerely,
Marc Spaz
Re: Virginia to end CCW reciprocity with 24 states
Posted: Fri, 25 Dec 2015 00:29:48
by tac66
This to me this is sad as well as an outrage! With nothing more than phantom fears and fictitious generalities our Attorney general decided to change our way of living or more importantly the way legal citizens can protect themselves.
As for me I take issue with this mandate for I a law abiding citizen in the great state of Virginia have lost my rights to reciprocity to the state of South Carolina, Florida, and Pennsylvania where I do business, vacation as well as conceal carry.
With no malice of my own I’ve lost this ability and come next year would be a criminal if I were to exercise a right that I have had for over 15 years visiting these states. So I ask how is that OK or right?? Moreover, how is it right for visiting individuals who had taken the responsibility to obtain a permit in their native state and be denied the very freedom I would have locally.
I see folks talk & writing of public safety trumping the rights of an individual to carry legally in this fashion, I counter that by saying the public is safer with legal citizens exercising this right. As we all know crime seems to be drawn to gun free zones or cities, states and countries who take away the liberty we have in our second amendment…do you ever wonder why the bad guys go there?, I don't have to nor do I frequent places I can't conceal carry my firearm
We live in difficult times and crime is about us... that we can all agree on. As a citizen who chooses to concealed carry I simply say “I don’t look for crime to happen” or “want it to happen”, however, it doesn’t preclude me from being prepared if it happens.
....Just me,the AG made this decision... with that comes responsibilities in his actions. if a crime were to happen and I couldn't defend myself because of this AG's actions, I would think that the AG is as culpable as as the "getaway driver" or the "look out" would be and should be identified as a participant to the act of the crime.
Re: Virginia to end CCW reciprocity with 24 states
Posted: Fri, 25 Dec 2015 02:55:37
by MarcSpaz
Great first post!
Re: Virginia to end CCW reciprocity with 24 states
Posted: Fri, 25 Dec 2015 19:39:31
by GregVa
Welcome
Tac66, and nice post.
Marc, thanks for the letter, I will update it for me if thats ok and send to my reps too.
Re: Virginia to end CCW reciprocity with 24 states
Posted: Fri, 25 Dec 2015 21:31:26
by MarcSpaz
Sounds good! Thanks for getting involved.
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Re: Virginia to end CCW reciprocity with 24 states
Posted: Sat, 26 Dec 2015 16:27:58
by Jeff82
Signing petitions, calling reps, spreading the word, I'm in!
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