Virginia Gun Owners Forum - VGOF

wittmeba wrote:

Swampman wrote: 2. then because of course will be no reduction in gun deaths they will came after handguns.

I think the key message here is they DO NOT give back the foolish laws and take-aways when they fail. So we lose a little ground then the next "try" we lose a little more. They keep chipping away at the pie and it constantly gets smaller. We need to find a way that when a newly implemented law can be proven to fail to improve safety we get it back before another law can be passed.

Sunset provisions in all laws, not just firearms laws. Every law should have to be voted back into existence every five years. Keep 'em so busy there is little time for screwing up something else.

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Looks like these days we need to make our voices heard more than ever.
What world you want to leave to your children?

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WRW wrote:Sunset provisions in all laws, not just firearms laws. Every law should have to be voted back into existence every five years. Keep 'em so busy there is little time for screwing up something else.

I fully agree. Every law should have a life/expiration date. At expiration another vote should be held. If it does not pass or doesn't get a vote then it dies a natural death.

How did West Virginia cut the ties to Richmond? Did they leave us a template for the procedure? The first gun control measure to cross the Governors desk ought to spark the process.

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So, you want to cut off NOVA, and become South Virginia?

I am not opposed...

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Upon further reflection...

Ok, this is off the top of my head; I don't have time to fact check myself, so I could easily be off base.

-I'm fairly certain that I ran across some language in The US Constitution, that prohibits States from splitting.

-Virginia had already legally seceded from The Union, and was no longer subject to the US Constitution. Not sure what, if anything, the Confederate Constitution said on the matter.

-West Virginia was able to split with Virginia Proper to rejoin The Union, and become its own State, because of the above. If the Confederate Constitution disallowed this, the Confederate States were in no position to enforce it, and The Arrogant Tyrant Lincoln was certainly not going to object to the addition of an allied State.

Again, this is off the top of my head, and I didn't go back to read the relevant documentation or the relevant history.

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It appears, to me, that there is a process...California has started it several times but never carried through. Seems it would have to go through State Government, popular vote, and US Congress at the least. I'm guessing that the hypocrits in Virginia Government would not hear of it.

But the thought still entertains me.

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SHMIV wrote:Upon further reflection...

Ok, this is off the top of my head; I don't have time to fact check myself, so I could easily be off base.

-I'm fairly certain that I ran across some language in The US Constitution, that prohibits States from splitting.

-Virginia had already legally seceded from The Union, and was no longer subject to the US Constitution. Not sure what, if anything, the Confederate Constitution said on the matter.

-West Virginia was able to split with Virginia Proper to rejoin The Union, and become its own State, because of the above. If the Confederate Constitution disallowed this, the Confederate States were in no position to enforce it, and The Arrogant Tyrant Lincoln was certainly not going to object to the addition of an allied State.

Again, this is off the top of my head, and I didn't go back to read the relevant documentation or the relevant history.

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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Well, it seems to me that since the Federal Government took the position that Virginia wasn't allowed to secede, then according to them it was still subject to the US Constitution. And those same feds then sanctioned the split off of part of Virginia to become WV, so arguably there is precedent. But there is also the issue that Virginia was at the time in rebellion against the union, so the circumstances are not exactly the same as when the federal government sanctioned the partition of a state.

Interesting issue.

I was mistaken. In my defense, when I ran across the part of the Constitution that discussed the formation of States, and specifically the Splitting of States, I was looking for something else, that was more pressing at the time.

Anyway, here's what the US Constitution says on the matter:

************************************

Article IV

Section 3

1: New States may be admitted by the Congress into this Union; but no new State shall be formed or erected within the Jurisdiction of any other State; nor any State be formed by the Junction of two or more States, or Parts of States, without the Consent of the Legislatures of the States concerned as well as of the Congress.

*****************************************

So, basically:

Step 1: Define new borders

Step 2: Obtain permission from the General Assembly and State Senate

Step 3: Obtain permission from both Houses of Congress

I haven't studied the separation of West Virginia. But, I doubt that they took those steps; I think that they just did it, and a meaningful objection, if one existed, just wasn't realistic under the given circumstances.

On the other hand, maybe they did go by the book. No clue.

Either way, West Virginia probably isn't the proper model.

And, I doubt that the State Legislature would approve this, as the notion is a direct refutation of their policies.

I imagine that The State of Jefferson, out in California (and, also, a small part of Oregon) has been put on hold, for precisely the same reason.

Probably easier to just heat up the tar, and start plucking chickens.

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I've been called a fig peeler, but never a chicken plucker.

Whether it would work or not, it may provide some distraction at a critical time.

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This is how they got it through, kinda.

The North Western parts of Virginia were not as thrilled about secession as the rest of Virginia. Early on, Yankees occupied NW Virginia. A political movement was started to overturn secession. Realizing it was nearly impossible, delegates were selected and had a meeting in Wheeling, where they elected a new Governor & delegates. They were called the, "Restored Government" of Virginia, & appealed to the Feds to be seated in Congress. Lincoln obviously approved. Once recognized, they started the process of separating & forming their own state.

The former government of Virginia (currently in Rebellion), wasn't recognized. So when the "restored government of VA" applied, they were recognized as having the authority to do so. They were officially entered into the Union in 1863 as West Virginia.

The whole deal was pretty shady. The rest of Virginia had no say in the matter. It was pretty underhanded in my opinion, & couldn't have happened without Lincoln's support. It would never have been possible without the War.

Would be very difficult to make happen today. I wish it was possible though. I'd want to stay as Virginia. Make NoVA offical. Call them Northern Virginia. That's what they are in more ways than one.

Viper21 wrote:I'd want to stay as Virginia. Make NoVA offical. Call them Northern Virginia. That's what they are in more ways than one.

Why call it "North Virginia" when you could call it "South Maryland"?

Ironbear wrote:

Viper21 wrote:I'd want to stay as Virginia. Make NoVA offical. Call them Northern Virginia. That's what they are in more ways than one.

Why call it "North Virginia" when you could call it "South Maryland"?

Or west DC? This would be fun - give NOVA to DC! Then the only representation they'd have in Congress would be Norton! They'd be begging to come back to VA!

What's the point? As populations grow the constitutional violations will too. You can build a wall around the new state due to the COTUS. The problem doesn't actually get resolved. You're just kicking the can down down the road to future generations.

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domin8ss wrote:What's the point? As populations grow the constitutional violations will too. You can build a wall around the new state due to the COTUS. The problem doesn't actually get resolved. You're just kicking the can down down the road to future generations.

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I guess you could say that the point is to provide relief for the law abiding that are about to have their basic rights severely curtailed while awaiting clarification of the law through court proceedings.

BTW, there's a name for an exodus of Virginians. "Vexit".

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We will have this secession discussion more and more.
It fits in the global pattern.

WRW wrote:

domin8ss wrote:What's the point? As populations grow the constitutional violations will too. You can build a wall around the new state due to the COTUS. The problem doesn't actually get resolved. You're just kicking the can down down the road to future generations.

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I guess you could say that the point is to provide relief for the law abiding that are about to have their basic rights severely curtailed while awaiting clarification of the law through court proceedings.

BTW, there's a name for an exodus of Virginians. "Vexit".

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Why not just get up and get your hands dirty? Hard work yields lasting results.

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I agree that hard work yields results and I applaud the attitude.
I would not dare, however, to allow myself to consider any results to be "lasting." Consider the "one gun a month" law. At first there was no such thing. Then, New York complained and we wound up with "one gun a month". Several years later that law was repealed. Now we are about to see a revival of that law (because a New Yorker bought our election).
Liberty does, indeed, require eternal vigilance.

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truly thinking of vexit.........just need to find a place and job

skeeterss00 wrote:truly thinking of vexit.........just need to find a place and job

A vexing problem.....