Virginia Gun Owners Forum - VGOF

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2013/02 ... ullet-buy/

To answer the OP Question.

DHS has been buying Ammo in bulk since it's creation, it was created to put many agencies under one umbrella.

But the question is why so much ammo now.. under this administration?



To put this in perspective: in the 8 years, 5 months, 23 days that have elapsed since the first ammunition order by DHS:

7 rounds every second would need to be shot in order to use every last round ordered as of today.
That would be 5.9 rounds per American.
For every letter in the King James Bible, 608 rounds.
If you were to put the ammunition in the small 50 round box of .45 ACP, it would be approximately 496,382 cubic feet, or 63 Olympic sized swimming pools.

The most likely answer is that the Government is using the IDIQ Contracts to control the cost and availability of Ammo that citizens have access too. why not, they do this with things like Oil and Gas to Pork Bellies.

if you don't believe me just take whats going on out there.

H. R. 142 Stop Online Ammunition Sales Act of 2013http://beta.congress.gov/bill/113th-con ... e-bill/142
To require face to face purchases of ammunition, to require licensing of ammunition dealers, and to require reporting regarding bulk purchases of ammunition.

There are several groups pushing for this solution:
http://smartgunlaws.org/ammunition-regu ... y-summary/

http://forcechange.com/21024/stop-walma ... mmunition/

Or how about background checks to buy ammo.....
http://www.blumenthal.senate.gov/newsro ... ion-groups

Some More Information here:
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2010/0 ... expensive/

http://www.theshootist.net/2009/03/dod- ... itary.html

2k05gt wrote: Hey Marc, whats up my brother.. MarcSpaz is the Man Thanks for all your help..

NP Man! Anytime. Lets get together this weekend. We need to get a sight for that AR you just picked up.

Back on topic... LOL

I have a question. If the government is truly trying to control the ammo market, why is Lake City still putting out ammo?

MarcSpaz wrote:

2k05gt wrote: Hey Marc, whats up my brother.. MarcSpaz is the Man Thanks for all your help..

NP Man! Anytime. Lets get together this weekend. We need to get a sight for that AR you just picked up.

Back on topic... LOL

I have a question. If the government is truly trying to control the ammo market, why is Lake City still putting out ammo?

Forget the sight, I need Ammo.. none to be had anywhere for a decent price.

Not control the Market, control the price and availability, Lake City is a GOC (Government owned Company) and produces a total of 730-million rounds per year for the Military. but as Government goes it hates to have all it's eggs in one basket so it relies on Commercial manufactures to supplement it's supply. As you know the IDIQ's are used to freeze the price at the time of the contract award and allows the government to submit RFP's at any time for any amount at a fixed price. Now the Government has always used is buying power to control prices through http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_controls Price Controls.

They use their purchasing power to regulate prices for staples like food and grain to keep the cost low or to buy up or control the flow of oil to increase or decrease the price when needed, look at the release of the strategic oil reserves, when this happens, prices go down, when they need to fill it backup prices go up it's Supply and demand 101. currently the Feds are buying more ammo than usual to create a shortage so that people can't hoard ammo in large amounts. Prices rise due to demand and people hold off or buy less. they have always done this and always will. do you think after all the Gun control talk and legislation dies down that Ammo prices will be back to pre-December 2012 levels? of course not, they will be lower but I doubt we will see .223 box of 20 under 10 bucks or 9mm box of 50 under 15.00.

Obama has stated that he would like to see gas prices increase over time to force Americans to alternative energy, his secretary of energy, said in 2008 he wanted gasoline prices in America to get to the European level, which is $9 or $10 a gallon. so this is just another way to force Americans to do what they want.

2k05gt wrote:

MarcSpaz wrote:

2k05gt wrote: Hey Marc, whats up my brother.. MarcSpaz is the Man Thanks for all your help..

NP Man! Anytime. Lets get together this weekend. We need to get a sight for that AR you just picked up.

Back on topic... LOL

I have a question. If the government is truly trying to control the ammo market, why is Lake City still putting out ammo?

Forget the sight, I need Ammo.. none to be had anywhere for a decent price.

Not control the Market, control the price and availability, Lake City is a GOC (Government owned Company) and produces a total of 730-million rounds per year for the Military. but as Government goes it hates to have all it's eggs in one basket so it relies on Commercial manufactures to supplement it's supply. As you know the IDIQ's are used to freeze the price at the time of the contract award and allows the government to submit RFP's at any time for any amount at a fixed price. Now the Government has always used is buying power to control prices through http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_controls Price Controls.

They use their purchasing power to regulate prices for staples like food and grain to keep the cost low or to buy up or control the flow of oil to increase or decrease the price when needed, look at the release of the strategic oil reserves, when this happens, prices go down, when they need to fill it backup prices go up it's Supply and demand 101. currently the Feds are buying more ammo than usual to create a shortage so that people can't hoard ammo in large amounts. Prices rise due to demand and people hold off or buy less. they have always done this and always will. do you think after all the Gun control talk and legislation dies down that Ammo prices will be back to pre-December 2012 levels? of course not, they will be lower but I doubt we will see .223 box of 20 under 10 bucks or 9mm box of 50 under 15.00.

Obama has stated that he would like to see gas prices increase over time to force Americans to alternative energy, his secretary of energy, said in 2008 he wanted gasoline prices in America to get to the European level, which is $9 or $10 a gallon. so this is just another way to force Americans to do what they want.

That is a possible answer, but it's still stockpiling and it's still significantly more than DHS actually needs by their own words. The point is that they are doing it for some reason and are not being transparent about why. "We use up to 15M/year" is not a valid justification for purchasing 750M/yr. It's window dressing for those who can't do simple math.

For what it's worth, your explanation is one that I personally consider more likely.

gunderwood wrote:
That is a possible answer, but it's still stockpiling and it's still significantly more than DHS actually needs by their own words. The point is that they are doing it for some reason and are not being transparent about why. "We use up to 15M/year" is not a valid justification for purchasing 750M/yr. It's window dressing for those who can't do simple math.

For what it's worth, your explanation is one that I personally consider more likely.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Chances are that somewhere in DC there's a federal agency that just made bureaucratic history by actually firing somebody - - - for the unpardonable sin of f**king up and actually telling the truth. Of course, I'd be willing to bet that whoever told the truth about it didn't understand the simple math behind it themselves.

MAybe it's there hedge against inflation.

I'm still new to using tap talk so please bear with my quotes.

I was having problems finding the exact words that Obama used but loosely is that he believes that there should be a civilian army hat has a budget that is equal to the military.

There is a bill hr748 http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/113/hr748/text that would require everybody to serve. Thinking about it... it would be either the US military or the presidents.

http://www.examiner.com/article/h-r-748 ... al-service this one links the two statements together. He had a class graduate. What else can you expect to happen?

This was a roundabout way of saying the government is buying ammo for its personal army.

Couple this with the news saying that reloading ammo is unsafe and puts people in danger. The president may kill Americans without recourse. They are trying to take how we will defend ourselves. The patriot act coupled with the cyber security act continues to remove your constitutional rights. Stand by for a police state. As i get more time i will back up my statements with credible sources. I do not have the time.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2

I finally put 2 and 2 together on the whole DHS IDIQ contracts as well as the weapons and ammo shortages that have been seen. This seems a lot more realistic than some of the theories I have heard so far too.

George Soros is a well-known supporter of progressive-liberal political causes, is buddies with the current administration and a huge financial supporter. He is also well know as a huge anti-gun liberal.

George Soros owns a company called Cerberus.

Cerberus owns a company called the Freedom Group.

Freedom Group owns the following weapons and ammunition companies...

BARNES BULLETS
REMINGTON
BUSHMASTER
REMINGTON MILITARY
REMINGTON LE
MARLIN FIREARMS
H&R 1871
DAKOTA ARMS
TAPCO
DPMS / Panther Arms
PARKER GUNMAKERS
ADVANCED ARMAMENT
PARA USA
REMINGTON PMPD
MOUNTAIN KHAKIS

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/...r-marlin-dpms/

http://www.freedom-group.com/

So, progressive-liberal gun hater administration and supporters = George Soros = Cerberus = Freedom Group = Control the market = Bypass Congress and the people, do whatever you want and F' the law.

What BS. Judging from the dates all this started, it looks like it all began right after Obama got elected for the first time. Coincidence? I think not. Lock in your government contracts, then inflate the price and dry up the market by cutting production and wholesale sales.

Am I missing something? Is there a wealthy conservative person or group trying to counter this move or are we getting blind-sided?

http://www.factcheck.org/2011/10/george-soros-gun-grab/
http://www.ammoland.com/2011/10/freedom ... net-rumor/

It seems as if there is little to no relationship between Soros and manufacturers.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

I've heard a lot of mention about this DHS ammo purchase contract stuff but I haven't dug into it beyond reading a couple of articles. Is this a contract to take possession of a massive amount of ammo or is it a contract with the option to buy a massive amount of ammo over several years? I'm kind of familiar with the way the government purchased goods/services? It would seems logical for the government to want to secure a contract with vendors who can can deliver a large quantity over time so they can try to work out a good price. However, I can definitely see how an attempt to actually purchase a huge amount of ammo in a short period of time would warrant some questions.

Cerberus is the mythological three-headed dog that guarded the gates of Hades. Something to think about. LOL

The main company itself is an Limited Partnership IPO with 2 guys holding the majority. However, George Soros, John Snow, Dan Quayle and several other extremely wealthy politicians and activist donated money in the form of investments, bringing the value of the parent company from a $10M to almost $20B. Investors are owners and do have a voice in the company. He may not be listed on the board, but he has a strong voice.

dmharvey wrote:I've heard a lot of mention about this DHS ammo purchase contract stuff but I haven't dug into it beyond reading a couple of articles. Is this a contract to take possession of a massive amount of ammo or is it a contract with the option to buy a massive amount of ammo over several years? I'm kind of familiar with the way the government purchased goods/services? It would seems logical for the government to want to secure a contract with vendors who can can deliver a large quantity over time so they can try to work out a good price. However, I can definitely see how an attempt to actually purchase a huge amount of ammo in a short period of time would warrant some questions.

They put out RFP's for several IDIQ contracts. Basically, in the same way airlines lock in fuel prices with contracts, DHS has done the same with ammo. Not that they took possession of it or will, but secured a long-term price regardless of the market.

Speaking of, I saw the DHS contract for a request for 7.62x39, .45LC, and .30-.30...

And I sent an e-mail asking my representation to review this, and let me know something, since NONE of those calibers are "DHS APPROVED ISSUED WEAPONS!"

(cricket-cricket)

That is what I was thinking, lock in up to x number of rounds at a certain price over a period of time. Seems logical.

MarcSpaz wrote:

dmharvey wrote:I've heard a lot of mention about this DHS ammo purchase contract stuff but I haven't dug into it beyond reading a couple of articles. Is this a contract to take possession of a massive amount of ammo or is it a contract with the option to buy a massive amount of ammo over several years? I'm kind of familiar with the way the government purchased goods/services? It would seems logical for the government to want to secure a contract with vendors who can can deliver a large quantity over time so they can try to work out a good price. However, I can definitely see how an attempt to actually purchase a huge amount of ammo in a short period of time would warrant some questions.

They put out RFP's for several IDIQ contracts. Basically, in the same way airlines lock in fuel prices with contracts, DHS has done the same with ammo. Not that they took possession of it or will, but secured a long-term price regardless of the market.