Virginia Gun Owners Forum - VGOF

Monkey wrote:It's gotten to the point that I really don't care whether or not the establishment allows it. I'm concealed about 90% of the time, anyway. If I'm going to carry (which I will), I'll carry regardless whether there's a sign or not.

I'm not against this but the consequences are stiff. I don't want to make trouble. There is enough difficulty with guns that out-of-sight, out-of-mind is a workable policy.

I always try to remember (sometimes not) to check the entrance for signs. But in this area there aren't many. I've only seen 2-3 Open Carriers in years - other than OC events or our VCDL meetings.

About the Short Pump Pour House:

If I lived in the Richmond area, I'd organize as big a group as possible to go in, order a cup of coffee, and then, in perfect unison, "spill it on the table and let it run onto the floor. They should then recite the following phrase loudly and at the same time, "YOU BETTER BAN COFFEE IN HERE, SOMEBODY COULD GET BURNED. " Then I'd advise leaving peaceably and with all possible dispatch.

EDIT: Maybe leave one of those VGOF cards on each table.
EDIT: Better idea: Leave a copy of that guy's anti-gun rant on each table.

Bump for

http://friendorfoe.us/

We all need to be adding to this database.

Thx Jeff. Looks like a very informative link.

Well it is official. Virginia ABC stores (well at least the one near me) are now posted. Red circle with slash and it is states "By executive order by Gov. Terry Dick face CC and OC a firearm on these premises is unlawfull........"

We don't even have a choice to go elsewhere since all liquor stores are state controlled.

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I've noticed that many ABC stores are located in strip malls. With that sort of location, you can walk right up to the door while armed, but just can't go inside.

So, the thing to do is to go to the ABC store with 2 armed friends. Have your friends stand guard by the door. They won't be loitering; they are waiting for their friend, inside, and clearly can't come in.

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Cool idea

SHMIV wrote:I've noticed that many ABC stores are located in strip malls. With that sort of location, you can walk right up to the door while armed, but just can't go inside.

So, the thing to do is to go to the ABC store with 2 armed friends. Have your friends stand guard by the door. They won't be loitering; they are waiting for their friend, inside, and clearly can't come in.

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I wonder what would happen if you removed your gun and holster and handed it to one of your friends then go in for business. Really not bransishing it is still in the holster. You're not threatening anyone just obeying the posted signs.

Perhaps this would be something to start doing at all the places with posted signs and you know outside the door it is legal to carry. Might require some judgement for parking lots.

I would think that removing your gun and holster might be pushing it a bit. Technically, it isn't brandishing, but I wouldn't want to have to make my case in court.

Having the 2 armed friends stand guard at the door, or being one of the guard friends, is about as far as I want to push it. And, I'd stick to openly carried hand guns, too. Long guns would make too much of a statement, and would likely backfire.

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Or if someone wants to stand up, and be the test case for the VaSCOTUS...

Yeah. That...

If Tee-Mac get's legally challenged based on past legal precedents, he'll fold like a house of cards.

Visited the Toys R Us in Petersburg/Colonial Heights over the holiday. They have a sign on door prohibiting firearms. Along with skateboarding, food, drinks, pets, cellphones, etc...just an all around "we don't allow anything" sign. How boring!

I assume this is company wide as well as Babies R Us.

Discretly adding "No Children" to the list might be kind of entertaining...

Just saying, I never leave home without a black and a red Sharpie. Just makes life more interesting. LOL

ammodors wrote:Visited the Toys R Us in Petersburg/Colonial Heights over the holiday. They have a sign on door prohibiting firearms. Along with skateboarding, food, drinks, pets, cellphones, etc...just an all around "we don't allow anything" sign. How boring!

I assume this is company wide as well as Babies R Us.

My wife and I shop at the store in Charlottesville.
I always CC.
What they don't know, won't hurt them.

smltooner wrote:

ammodors wrote:Visited the Toys R Us in Petersburg/Colonial Heights over the holiday. They have a sign on door prohibiting firearms. Along with skateboarding, food, drinks, pets, cellphones, etc...just an all around "we don't allow anything" sign. How boring!

I assume this is company wide as well as Babies R Us.

My wife and I shop at the store in Charlottesville.
I always CC.
What they don't know, won't hurt them.

You may be hurting yourself. You may be jeopardizing your use of the self-defense defense should you be forced to take drastic measures while carrying in a place where you can't statutorily carry. I know my self-defense legal protection won't kick in if I'm in a place I can't legally carry.

Although, not carrying has it's own set of penalties too...

It is only a trespassing charge and only if the property owner wants to press charges. Plus, the property owner pressing trespassing charges doesn't mean a conviction for trespassing. Worse case, I'll take a conviction of a Class 1 misdemeanor and be alive over being dead.

MarcSpaz wrote:It is only a trespassing charge and only if the property owner wants to press charges. Plus, the property owner pressing trespassing charges doesn't mean a conviction for trespassing. Worse case, I'll take a conviction of a Class 1 misdemeanor and be alive over being dead.

I was talking about having to use deadly force. If you go to trial you may be barred from proposing a self-defense argument (and it's subsequent jury instructions) and have to go through a standard trial. If you are allowed self-defense then you get special jury instructions and certain assumptions for the court are made that makes it much easier to be found not guilty.

Read "The Law of Self Defense."

Jeff82 wrote:

MarcSpaz wrote:It is only a trespassing charge and only if the property owner wants to press charges. Plus, the property owner pressing trespassing charges doesn't mean a conviction for trespassing. Worse case, I'll take a conviction of a Class 1 misdemeanor and be alive over being dead.

I was talking about having to use deadly force. If you go to trial you may be barred from proposing a self-defense argument (and it's subsequent jury instructions) and have to go through a standard trial. If you are allowed self-defense then you get special jury instructions and certain assumptions for the court are made that makes it much easier to be found not guilty.

Read "The Law of Self Defense."

Is that a loss of "Stand Your Ground" since a qualifier is that you must be in an area that you have a lawful right to be?

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That is a good point. But... you may still be able to prove that you legally use lethal force. For instance, if you retreat as far as you can and unable to escape. Or in my case, I am disabled and simply may not be able to retreat, then Stand You Ground, doesn't apply.

Those are both something I need to run by the lawyer.

The VCDL website is under rebuild/construction. Not all pages are available. I have contacted John Pierce as his name is tied to the webmaster email. According to Philip Van Cleave John is swamped and I have not heard from him yet as to the status.