Virginia Gun Owners Forum - VGOF

SeMiFlat wrote:Out of common courtesy I supply my CHP with my DL/Registration. I've never had any issues from LEOs when I give them a heads up. IMO, I've been treated with more respect since I got my CHP, though it may be the receding hairline and slower cars.

What makes it "common courtesy"? So by others not informing they are not being courteous?

I have to agree with the "What color are your underwear" line of thinking.

If I get pulled over, and the cop starts asking probing questions, am I required by law to answer them? What color are my underwear? Do I have a firearm in the vehicle? Do you know why I pulled you over? Where are you headed? Where are you coming from?

Every situation is different, and must be handled on a case-by-case basis...there might be one time where you feel inclined to let the officer know that you're carrying and others where you may not.

I think the key thing to keep in mind is whether withholding information will impede the officer's investigation. If so, then you could be charged with obstruction. On the flip side of that coin, if you're pulled over for speeding or running a red light, what is the relevance of whether you're carrying or not?

If you have a CHP, then clearly, you have demonstrated to the county in which you live that you are a trustworthy individual. You have completed training of some form, and you have passed a background check. This implies that even if you are carrying, that you pose no threat to the officer, and therefore, his point of asking about your carry status is moot.

[quote="allingeneralIf you have a CHP, then clearly, you have demonstrated to the county in which you live that you are a trustworthy individual. You have completed training of some form, and you have passed a background check. This implies that even if you are carrying, that you pose no threat to the officer, and therefore, his point of asking about your carry status is moot.[/quote]

Implies no threat to them BULLSHIT . Just because some County said it was ok for Joe Blow to have a CHP don't mean that they are an upstanding person. As a LEO you can't let your guard down for anything on any type of stop or interview with anyone. If that seem's parinoid so be it but I have seen enough people killed wearing a badge that did not have to die and should not have.
Bill

allingeneral wrote:

zephyp wrote:

SgtBill wrote:Sorry but you did not explane it in your first post or if you did I did not understand it. It still did not make them Storm Trooper's for doing their job did it?
Bill

No prob, but I didnt call them storm troopers...I said they storm trooped us...meaning they sped in, sirens/lights, slammed open doors and strode to vehicles with hand on gun butts...peering around through slitted eyes with teeth barred they descended upon the cringing drivers who sat huddled, cold, hungry, and wet in their dilapidated vehicles...

Honey - I didn't say you were a bitch - I said you were "Acting like a bitch" Big difference!

allingeneral wrote:

zephyp wrote:

SgtBill wrote:Sorry but you did not explane it in your first post or if you did I did not understand it. It still did not make them Storm Trooper's for doing their job did it?
Bill

No prob, but I didnt call them storm troopers...I said they storm trooped us...meaning they sped in, sirens/lights, slammed open doors and strode to vehicles with hand on gun butts...peering around through slitted eyes with teeth barred they descended upon the cringing drivers who sat huddled, cold, hungry, and wet in their dilapidated vehicles...

Honey - I didn't say you were a bitch - I said you were "Acting like a bitch" Big difference!

Right, but that one doesnt work on the better half...

correct me if I am wrong, but when they pull you over they run the license plate first and CHP will show up on the screen. Now, lets say you are driving your spouse's car, and the spouse has CHP, and you are not. Cop has all reasons to assume you have firearm with you/on you. So if he asks you -that's b/c he needs to establish his safety first. So put your hands where he can see you and start conversation with "for yours and mine safety, I have to tell you..."

zephyp wrote:You are not required to inform an LEO that you are carrying regardless of permit status here in VA. Other states are different and require that you immediately inform upon contact.

I dont tell unless asked.

+++++++
Only if asked
My father was a LEO for 30+ yrs. His advise was only give minimum information. Never give them anything they can use againest you.

From my email this morning

**************************************************
8. Citizen rights during traffic stops
**************************************************

Reminder: while many police officers in Virginia prefer to be notified during a stop that you have a sidearm, under Virginia law there is no legal requirement to provide such notification.

Most of the time the officer asks where the sidearm is and directs you not to touch it, but occasionally such notification can lead to your sidearm being seized, checked for stolen, and returned to you unloaded.
Notify or don't notify - it's up to you.

NOTE: Do not confuse this advice with an officer asking to see your CHP because he knows, or has been told, that you are carrying a concealed sidearm. In that case you must provide the CHP as proof that you are carrying legally. If you are openly carrying your sidearm, then you don't need to have, or show, a CHP - again it would be up to you.

The bolded portion is of interest. Can the officer seize the firearm to run the serial number?

Everett113 wrote:

"Only if asked
My father was a LEO for 30+ yrs. His advise was only give minimum information. Never give them anything they can use againest you"

My sentiment exactly.. Be polite and cooperative but don;t give anything they don;t ask for,

Everett113 wrote:Only if asked
My father was a LEO for 30+ yrs. His advise was only give minimum information. Never give them anything they can use against you.

Absolutely. I've only been stopped once in FL and twice in VA since I started carrying and didn't inform at any time. Never came up. I want to go home to my family, too, and not shot by some itchy-trigger-fingered kid with a badge.

A "casual interrogation" is just an invitation to give up your rights. Ain't happenin'. Know your rights and exercise them regularly to keep them in shape.

rromeo wrote:The bolded portion is of interest. Can the officer seize the firearm to run the serial number?

It would be seized "for officer safety"....cuz, you know, handling is much safer than just leaving it be.

and once it is out of the holster..."well, since I can see that Serial # right here in plain sight...lets see if anything comes up."

Unless you have a lawful reason to kill someone, or if you are carrying concealed and a cop demands to see your CHP and photo-id, don't make any reference to the gun, orally or physically. Don't think about it, don't talk about it, don't gesture towards it, don't touch it, and don't show it off. If a cop wants to know about your "weapons", tell him you prefer not to chat about "weapons". If he orders you to produce your CHP and photo-id AND you are carrying concealed, do what he says. Otherwise, you can say, "I'm not carrying a concealed weapon, thank you." There is a world of difference between a request (or "need") and an order (or command); if it's ambiguous or confusing for you, ask the cop, "Are you asking me or telling me?"

KYBMS - "Keep Your Big Mouth Shut".

Key phrases you can use as appropriate: "Am I free to leave, can I go now?" and, "I want my lawyer."

mrjam2jab wrote:

rromeo wrote:The bolded portion is of interest. Can the officer seize the firearm to run the serial number?

It would be seized "for officer safety"....cuz, you know, handling is much safer than just leaving it be.

and once it is out of the holster..."well, since I can see that Serial # right here in plain sight...lets see if anything comes up."

Negative. At least, not unless the cop has "reasonable, articulable suspicion, based on objective fact, that you are involved in criminal misconduct."

@user +1

As has already been touched upon, be certain of all other states you may be travelling to/thru. Some states require "immediate" notification, in which case the first words out of your pie hole had better be something to the effect that you are legally armed.

Many will disagree with me here. While I lived in NY I had an unrestricted carry permit. (They do not have real CHL's per se)

Every time I was pulled over, I signaled, dome lights went on (night) as I found a safe place to pull over,stopped, before the officer could even get to my car, I had my ignition off, hands on steering wheel crossed over, with my ID's in hand. (I got them out while I was still pulling over). My window is down, I say "Good Evening Officer", I hand the officer my license and CHL. I then said nothing. Usually, they will ask if I was carrying, I simply said, "Yes sir, on my right hip, how would you like to proceed?"

Not, I will never say gun, or any other trigger word... I will use the words carry and permit, but never firearms, gun, etc...

Every single time, they thanked me for letting them know and just not to make sudden movements. Anytime they asked me to get something, such as registration and proof of insurance I would ask if I could... Unbuckle my seat belt, Open my glove box, which of course I let it open and sit up, then ask again if I can reach into it. I asked permission to death!!!! No move unless he okayed it. In reality YOU are in control by doing this!!!! Sounds weird, but it is a great tool.

I used that to my advantage once when a young cop asked why I had a handgun, I simply said.. Ohh my registration is in the glove box may I open it?" He asked again and I said "may I get my registrations?" Every time he asked a dumb gun question, he got asked back a procedural permission request from me. He got the idea I was not going to answer. I still got out of that ticket!

10 out of 11 stops I got out of a ticket! The 11th was the only time I was not carrying!!!!

If anything use it as a way to possibly get out of a ticket

user wrote:Unless you have a lawful reason to kill someone, or if you are carrying concealed and a cop demands to see your CHP and photo-id, don't make any reference to the gun, orally or physically. Don't think about it, don't talk about it, don't gesture towards it, don't touch it, and don't show it off. If a cop wants to know about your "weapons", tell him you prefer not to chat about "weapons". If he orders you to produce your CHP and photo-id AND you are carrying concealed, do what he says. Otherwise, you can say, "I'm not carrying a concealed weapon, thank you." There is a world of difference between a request (or "need") and an order (or command); if it's ambiguous or confusing for you, ask the cop, "Are you asking me or telling me?"

KYBMS - "Keep Your Big Mouth Shut".

Key phrases you can use as appropriate: "Am I free to leave, can I go now?" and, "I want my lawyer."

Great stuff there...especially starting at KYBMS.....many OC'ers in CA have made the ask/command thing a ritual...another good bit of advice buried in that last line...answer questions with questions...LEO love to ask questions and they are trained to do it in a way to get you several different ways...

Example...do you know how fast you were going? So, if you say yes and they want a number then you are already in trouble...if you were speeding you hang yourself if you tell the number and also if you lie...

So the answer might be not exactly officer, how fast was I going...

user wrote:Unless you have a lawful reason to kill someone, or if you are carrying concealed and a cop demands to see your CHP and photo-id, don't make any reference to the gun, orally or physically. Don't think about it, don't talk about it, don't gesture towards it, don't touch it, and don't show it off. If a cop wants to know about your "weapons", tell him you prefer not to chat about "weapons". If he orders you to produce your CHP and photo-id AND you are carrying concealed, do what he says. Otherwise, you can say, "I'm not carrying a concealed weapon, thank you." There is a world of difference between a request (or "need") and an order (or command); if it's ambiguous or confusing for you, ask the cop, "Are you asking me or telling me?"

KYBMS - "Keep Your Big Mouth Shut".

Key phrases you can use as appropriate: "Am I free to leave, can I go now?" and, "I want my lawyer."

Great stuff, thanks for the legal wisdom. Can the cops without RAS disarm a legally-armed civilian after producing a valid permit on command in the name of "officer safety" during a traffic stop or any other time - again, w/o RAS of criminal activity afoot?

Usually when a cop asks me if I know why he stopped me, I always respond with, "No I don't officer, I know my equipment is working properly, and I was driving safely."

In NY, anything you say is documented on your ticket! SO that becomes a part of the court record. They have mini computers in the cars out there. Not sure how it is in VA.

I'd like all you folks who feel compelled to confess all to the police when stopped to carry my telephone number in your wallets (available on my website); Some of you will need it. Oh, also, put some cash away "for a rainy day", too - you'll need that to post bond and pay legal fees.