I was asked...

[zephyp]

All this talk of confrontation.

Video cameras are dirt cheap and have amazing zoom lenses these days. Digital cameras automatically record the date/time the recording was made.

Videotape the tresspasser and once you have a good face shot and call the cops.

I think banjo music and a few plastic human bones scattered about would be more than sufficient....

[Jim]

.....I think banjo music and a few plastic human bones scattered about would be more than sufficient....

I laughed at that. Our house is 3/10 of a mile off the black top. My wife's experience with living in the country wouldn't fill up a thimble. She once suggested we name our drive "Banjo Rd."

[CCFan]

1) The crime of brandishing a firearm is not limited to public places - you can be found guilty of that offense if you're doing it in your own bedroom. The essense of the offense is coercion or intimidation (e.g., "Get off my land!")

Care to expound on this?

VA Code 18.2-282: Pointing, holding, or brandishing firearm, air or gas operated weapon or object similar in appearance; penalty.

A. It shall be unlawful for any person to point, hold or brandish any firearm or any air or gas operated weapon or any object similar in appearance, whether capable of being fired or not, in such manner as to reasonably induce fear in the mind of another or hold a firearm or any air or gas operated weapon in a public place in such a manner as to reasonably induce fear in the mind of another of being shot or injured. However, this section shall not apply to any person engaged in excusable or justifiable self-defense. Persons violating the provisions of this section shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor or, if the violation occurs upon any public, private or religious elementary, middle or high school, including buildings and grounds or upon public property within 1,000 feet of such school property, he shall be guilty of a Class 6 felony.

Therefore if proven that this supposed infraction occurs on ones own private property it is not in a public place, ergo, code 18.2-282 is invalid?

I know all cases are different and the merits of each case are weighed on their own - but this law is worded pretty specifically...

[Jim]

Very observant, CC. Good eye.

[zephyp]

.....I think banjo music and a few plastic human bones scattered about would be more than sufficient....

I laughed at that. Our house is 3/10 of a mile off the black top. My wife's experience with living in the country wouldn't fill up a thimble. She once suggested we name our drive "Banjo Rd."

The first time I wen to Vahunter's (Henry) house his directions said...when you hear banjo music turn left...he lives down in Charlotte county and I have seen a coupla guys sitting down there in rockers with banjos...

[Yarddawg]

The following is copied and pasted, verbatim, from Virginia Hunting Regulations.
Hunting on Private Property

Trespass violations, posting property, and access issues are all concerns affecting landowner's considerations for allowing hunting. Hunters are reminded that it is unlawful to hunt on private property without the permission of the landowner, and hunters must have the permission of the landowner to track or retrieve wounded game on private property.
On Posted Property:

It is unlawful to hunt without written permission of the landowner and is punishable by a fine of up to $2500 and/or 12 months in jail.

Amazingly, nothing states that they must have your permission to retrieve their dogs however. They can basically roam all over your property trying to get their dog(s) back, and never mention anything to you about it. How is that right?

[Jim]

Hunting with Dogs

* Dogs may be used to pursue wild birds and animals during hunting seasons where not prohibited.
* When the chase begins on other lands, fox hunters and coon hunters may follow their dogs on prohibited lands, and hunters of all other game, when the chase begins on other lands, may go upon prohibited lands to retrieve their dogs, but may not carry firearms or archery tackle on their persons or hunt any game while thereon. The use of vehicles to retrieve dogs on prohibited lands shall be allowed only with the permission of the landowner or his agent. Any person who goes on prohibited lands to retrieve his dogs must identify himself when requested by the landowner or his agent.
Apparently, the writers of the law have decided that it's OK to just go wandering onto somebody else's place as long as you're not armed. At least they decided that one should identify himself when requested.
Seems to me that just wandering onto private property without at least trying to make contact with the owner might result in a misunderstanding. That is, assuming there's an occupied house on the property.

[WRW]

To me, retrieving hunting dogs is about equivalent to retrieving livestock that has gotten loose. As long as that is what they are doing, and that is all they are doing, it is no big deal.

[Jim]

I feel the same way. If the guy is just trying to catch his dog and that's all he wants, I'll even help him if I can. Hang, the dog don't know what a fence means. He's just out for the thrill of the hunt.

[WRW]

I feel the same way. If the guy is just trying to catch his dog and that's all he wants, I'll even help him if I can. Hang, the dog don't know what a fence means. He's just out for the thrill of the hunt.

My understanding is that some of those dogs represent a quite considerable investment for their owners... similar in value to most livestock.

[WRW]

1) The crime of brandishing a firearm is not limited to public places - you can be found guilty of that offense if you're doing it in your own bedroom. The essense of the offense is coercion or intimidation (e.g., "Get off my land!")

Care to expound on this?

VA Code 18.2-282: Pointing, holding, or brandishing firearm, air or gas operated weapon or object similar in appearance; penalty.

A. It shall be unlawful for any person to point, hold or brandish any firearm or any air or gas operated weapon or any object similar in appearance, whether capable of being fired or not, in such manner as to reasonably induce fear in the mind of another or hold a firearm or any air or gas operated weapon in a public place in such a manner as to reasonably induce fear in the mind of another of being shot or injured. However, this section shall not apply to any person engaged in excusable or justifiable self-defense. Persons violating the provisions of this section shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor or, if the violation occurs upon any public, private or religious elementary, middle or high school, including buildings and grounds or upon public property within 1,000 feet of such school property, he shall be guilty of a Class 6 felony.

Therefore if proven that this supposed infraction occurs on ones own private property it is not in a public place, ergo, code 18.2-282 is invalid?

I know all cases are different and the merits of each case are weighed on their own - but this law is worded pretty specifically...

"It shall be unlawful for any person to point, hold or brandish any firearm or any air or gas operated weapon or any object similar in appearance, whether capable of being fired or not, in such manner as to reasonably induce fear in the mind of another..."

Point hold or brandish anywhere OR just hold in public.

[CCFan]

"It shall be unlawful for any person to point, hold or brandish any firearm or any air or gas operated weapon or any object similar in appearance, whether capable of being fired or not, in such manner as to reasonably induce fear in the mind of another..."

Point hold or brandish anywhere OR just hold in public.

Thanks. I read that numerous times before today, and now I see how I was reading it - I was missing the "or" that seperated point/hold/brandish OR hold in public...

Sheesh.... No wonder people run afoul of the law so often...

[WRW]

Yeah, I had to slow the record from 45 to 33 1/3 to pick up on it.

[Yarddawg]

I feel the same way. If the guy is just trying to catch his dog and that's all he wants, I'll even help him if I can. Hang, the dog don't know what a fence means. He's just out for the thrill of the hunt.

My understanding is that some of those dogs represent a quite considerable investment for their owners... similar in value to most livestock.

I have no problem with someone retrieving their dog...I'll help them too. My problem is the dog running around barking and scaring everything off the property. It gets very frustrating while hunting and all of a sudden somebody's dog got away from them and scares off the game that I've been waiting to get a good shot at.

[zephyp]

To me, retrieving hunting dogs is about equivalent to retrieving livestock that has gotten loose. As long as that is what they are doing, and that is all they are doing, it is no big deal.

I disagree...livestock meander slowly along munching on the occasional clump of grass looking around with a vapid expression...dogs run all over the place making noise and generally raising hell...not good when you're trying to coax deer to your stand...

[WRW]

To me, retrieving hunting dogs is about equivalent to retrieving livestock that has gotten loose. As long as that is what they are doing, and that is all they are doing, it is no big deal.

I disagree...livestock meander slowly along munching on the occasional clump of grass looking around with a vapid expression...dogs run all over the place making noise and generally raising hell...not good when you're trying to coax deer to your stand...

At that point in the thread where I made that comment we were discussing the law, not the characteristics of the animals. My very limited experience with other peoples dogs is that they keep game moving and the game uses the same trails that I am watching. I assume that your experience hasn't been as pleasant?

[zephyp]

To me, retrieving hunting dogs is about equivalent to retrieving livestock that has gotten loose. As long as that is what they are doing, and that is all they are doing, it is no big deal.

I disagree...livestock meander slowly along munching on the occasional clump of grass looking around with a vapid expression...dogs run all over the place making noise and generally raising hell...not good when you're trying to coax deer to your stand...

At that point in the thread where I made that comment we were discussing the law, not the characteristics of the animals. My very limited experience with other peoples dogs is that they keep game moving and the game uses the same trails that I am watching. I assume that your experience hasn't been as pleasant?

Nope, just being puckish. And the dogs do sometimes move the game...very very fast...the tiny deer being chased this past Saturday morning was going too fast to see and the dog didnt look very tasty...

[WRW]

Nope, just being puckish. And the dogs do sometimes move the game...very very fast...the tiny deer being chased this past Saturday morning was going too fast to see and the dog didnt look very tasty...

LOL! I'll have to tell my story sometime. It involves a one eyed dog, a three legged deer, a Belgian horse...

[gunderwood]

I'm not a fan of anyone using dogs to hunt deer.

[zephyp]

Nope, just being puckish. And the dogs do sometimes move the game...very very fast...the tiny deer being chased this past Saturday morning was going too fast to see and the dog didnt look very tasty...

LOL! I'll have to tell my story sometime. It involves a one eyed dog, a three legged deer, a Belgian horse...

Sounds like the scene in Rat Race with the prostitute...sailor hat and a hot tub full of pepto bismal...