Virginia Gun Owners Forum - VGOF

Pfffft. Collapse of society, Sunday, Sunday, Sunday!!!

Cool factor = huge

Fuel mileage = not so good

But just think of the zombies you could flatten....

I think just about anything from Icon motors will work. They make tricked out Jeep CJ-3s and Toyota Land Cruiser FJ45s. icon4x4.com

Icon stuff is cool, but they are 6 figure vehicles!

I've been thinking about this some more. Given that the situation that gunderwood's talking about is not "total collapse"; it's an Argentina-style collapse, people still doing business, etc., any of these vehicles would probably work just fine. If people are still doing business, as was specified, then that means that people can still get food, water, etc. The roads probably won't be maintained very well, but so what? You oughta see my neighborhood! LOL But people drive Honda Civics all the time on these pothole-ridden roads.

A "SHTF" scenario, to me, means the infrastructure is gone. No food, no water, no electricity, none of that. It means people will be fighting each other over food and water. In that situation, I want a horse, a couple of guns, and plenty of ammo to defend myself with.

CowboyT wrote:I've been thinking about this some more. Given that the situation that gunderwood's talking about is not "total collapse"; it's an Argentina-style collapse, people still doing business, etc., any of these vehicles would probably work just fine. If people are still doing business, as was specified, then that means that people can still get food, water, etc. The roads probably won't be maintained very well, but so what? You oughta see my neighborhood! LOL But people drive Honda Civics all the time on these pothole-ridden roads.

A "SHTF" scenario, to me, means the infrastructure is gone. No food, no water, no electricity, none of that. It means people will be fighting each other over food and water. In that situation, I want a horse, a couple of guns, and plenty of ammo to defend myself with.

The original intent of this thread (which immediately went downhill ) was between those two. In the Argentina case, most of the infrastructure isn't working. They have some gas/diesel, but it is hard to get. Same with food, water, etc. It isn't that those things are impossible to get, but rather that they are so scarce that people fight over them.

The intent was a middle ground where a balance of off road capability, gas mileage, on road capability, long term durability, and ease of fixing that I was asking the question.

Yes, you could get a huge pickup, but if you are getting single digit MPG you won't be going far. On the other hand modern engines/drive-trains are much more efficient, but if they are so complex you can fix something you are up a creek without a paddle. Also, while you need off road capability, you don't want something that can't take a corner above 25MPH without tipping over because you have a 24" lift (/sarcasm alert).

If you had to balance all of these things and pay for the 4x4, what would you buy and why. If you didn't already have one and wanted to get one, but also use it for range trips in the mean time, would that change your choice?

The military versions of the civilian Toyota Land Cruiser, Tacoma and Hilux 4x4s have been used by military forces all over the world, in Asia, South America and the Middle East, for more than 50 years. The types of military that use these machines range from the modern and sophisticated Australian military, to the archaic and now defeated Taliban government of Afghanistan. Originally, I had thought the U.S. military did not currently use military Toyotas, but I have since been corrected. Japan donated a number of Land Cruiser 75s to the U.S. military for the 1st Gulf War effort and they were used in a variety of functions at U.S. military bases all over the world. Apparently, even a Land Cruiser 80 was used by General Norman Schwarzkopf. The Land Cruiser and Hilux is still used extensively today by American and other military
forces in the Middle East. Even the American built Toyota Tacoma was used in combat by American special forces in Afghanistan. Many of these Tacomas were literally purchased off of the showroom floor in the U.S. and pressed into combat service in Afghanistan after minor modifications, still sporting their shiny factory paint jobs and aluminum wheels! Below you'll see pictures of all these mentioned military Toyotas and more.

http://www.brian894x4.com/MILITARYTOYOTAS.html

That is more what I had in mind. Balance/preparing for all levels of potential collapses.

I wonder if Toyota offers that gun mount as an option!

Everybody loves a Hummer!

OakRidgeStars wrote:
But just think of the zombies you could flatten....

I think this is all that really matters.

So I will stretch it a little bit and go 6X6, yeah it's big, ugly and has horrible paint job, but it has a low tech electrical system, a Cummins diesel, an Allison Automatic, Power Steering and A.C. and can drag most 4X4 anywhere it wants...

grumpyMSG wrote:So I will stretch it a little bit and go 6X6, yeah it's big, ugly and has horrible paint job, but it has a low tech electrical system, a Cummins diesel, an Allison Automatic, Power Steering and A.C. and can drag most 4X4 anywhere it wants...

I saw one of those at Lowes one day. Had to get out and talk to the guys loading it up. They got theirs for a few grand, rebuilt the engine and a couple minor things. Very cool. The only downsides are MPG and the cost of the tires.

They are plentiful and cheap around here, as long as you are able to work on it yourself. You can even pickup a matching trailer.

Reverenddel wrote:Have we discounted a simple Jeep Wrangler, or Ford Ranger?

I was thinking with a 4 cylinder diesel, and in 4x4... and not all "Lifted" but with thought planned out... you could be okay with that.. .

Years ago I had an 83 Ford Ranger 4x4 longbed in 4x4. That was one of the most competent 4x4's I've ever driven. I beat the hell out of it, and then gave it to a buddy. He beat it up even more.

While it had a host of weird problems, it never quite quit. He wound up donating it to some charity. Helluva good truck.

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OakRidgeStars wrote:They are plentiful and cheap around here, as long as you are able to work on it yourself. You can even pickup a matching trailer.

Where are you seeing them? And what is "cheap" in this case?

(Feel free to PM if you don't want to clutter the thread.)

There's a guy in P-town that sells these trucks. I guess he bought them locally as surplus. They popup on Hoes-list (I mean Craigslist) from time to time.

gunderwood wrote: The original intent of this thread (which immediately went downhill ) was between those two. In the Argentina case, most of the infrastructure isn't working. They have some gas/diesel, but it is hard to get. Same with food, water, etc. It isn't that those things are impossible to get, but rather that they are so scarce that people fight over them.

The intent was a middle ground where a balance of off road capability, gas mileage, on road capability, long term durability, and ease of fixing that I was asking the question.

Yes, you could get a huge pickup, but if you are getting single digit MPG you won't be going far. On the other hand modern engines/drive-trains are much more efficient, but if they are so complex you can fix something you are up a creek without a paddle. Also, while you need off road capability, you don't want something that can't take a corner above 25MPH without tipping over because you have a 24" lift (/sarcasm alert).

If you had to balance all of these things and pay for the 4x4, what would you buy and why. If you didn't already have one and wanted to get one, but also use it for range trips in the mean time, would that change your choice?

Ah, in that case, I'd DEFINITELY go for the old Jeep with the Perkins Diesel. Good gas economy, Jeep 4x4 ability, PTO, easy to fix, and very driveable on regular roadways. That Perkins engine will burn anything from biodiesel to veggie oil and keep on goin'. That fuel flexibility can matter in this kind of situation. No electronicsAnd being a Jeep, it would of course be great for range trips, plus...well, you've got an older Jeep! That right there is cool in and of itself.

Reverenddel wrote:Have we discounted a simple Jeep Wrangler, or Ford Ranger?

No, but cargo capacity is a consideration. A Wrangler doesn't have much unless there is only two of you (unlikely given the circumstances). I was leaning towards pickups with a real back seat for that reason. Just enough cargo out back to haul rifle cases, supplies and such. The link I provided was the military using the Tacoma in Afghanistan (rising sun equivalent to the Ranger).

The lighter trucks like the Ranger have an advantage when you want to cover off-road ground quickly. Full sized pickups (150, 250, etc) are much heavier and don't seem to be as nimble off-road. This is a concern if you are trying to flee from a bad situation and need to do it off-road. The singular exception to this is the current F150 SVT Raptor. Of course, for big money you can make them work well, but they don't come that way from the factory.

SUVs have the benefit of having your cargo inside and accessible, but a top gunner isn't going to work well (pics I linked too). Getting essential gear out is much slower too.

Ok, ok, if society ever really does collapse, I'm really gettin' out of here. No screwing around. Hopefully I can find enough roadway to get this bad boy up to speed

GREAT SCOTT!!!

Man what a ride, Craig! Just don't back off it 'til she flashes and leaves a pair of burning tracks in the roadway...