Virginia Gun Owners Forum - VGOF

I'll say it again. The only restriction there should be on knives is the improper use of one to unjustly harm or threaten another human being. Why should I or society care what knife you choose to carry if you aren't harming anyone? Most of the knife laws were created to explicitly forbid immigrants from carrying their native knives. Ah racism.

Wally626,

Understand. But when proposing new language, those issues can be handled in the package. That's why it's not an overnight process to research and draft new legislation. One must tie up all loose ends with the ultimate goal kept clearly in sight. Auto-openers stand as a key objective, so cleanups like you mention must be tied up nice and tight in an appropriate way.

I prefer the concealed weapon permit or less likely Constitutional carry for all weapons...if I can carry a concealed handgun with a 20+ round mag and an unspecified number of full mags why cant I carry a concealed knife, blackjack, or brass knuckles...makes no sense...

@Garrett - why make a law like that for knives...akin to hate crime laws...we already have laws against harming others for no justified reason...

zephyp wrote:I prefer the concealed weapon permit or less likely Constitutional carry for all weapons...if I can carry a concealed handgun with a 20+ round mag and an unspecified number of full mags why cant I carry a concealed knife, blackjack, or brass knuckles...makes no sense...

@Garrett - why make a law like that for knives...akin to hate crime laws...we already have laws against harming others for no justified reason...

Translation: no new laws needed because you are right, we already have such laws.

That was probably me. I've been very busy with other things lately, but have also been researching the statutes here in VA concerning auto knives in particular. I've been comparing them with other states like FL that issue a concealed weapons permit that includes knives, etc. My plan is to draft language taking several different approaches to the problem and asking friends in the House of Delegates to sponsor them. Making the CHP a CWP will definitely be one approach. I'll probably run my initial language past kniferights for their thoughts to get the benefit of their experience elsewhere.

I don't anticipate that this will be an easy project, nor that it will be quick. But I'm taking a realistic, long view.

Your the man! Thanks for doing this, let me know when to send emails once if it becomes up for vote.

Jakeiscrazy wrote:Your the man! Thanks for doing this, let me know when to send emails once if it becomes up for vote.

Thanks. Will do.

Reminds me of the scene in My Cousin Vinny, in which Joe Pesci and Marissa Tomei are in a hotel room arguing about stuff. He's talking about going hunting with the prosecutor in order to do the male-bonding thing in order to get strategic advantage at trial, and wondering what kind of pants to wear. Her response was a little story about bambi in the woods, taking a drink from a stream, "and BLAM!, a hunter blows her brains out! Now, I ask you, do you really thing she cared about what color pants the hunter had on?"

If a person with criminal intent injures another person, does it really matter (as a legal issue) whether he uses a gun, a switchblade or a bowie knife? It's always struck me as ironic that the most powerful weapon in the list is permitted, while the short-range weapons that actually require more skill are prohibited. The only possible justification is that we've distinguished between the "silent killers" (my dog's farts should be illegal) and the loud boom killers.

user wrote:Reminds me of the scene in My Cousin Vinny, in which Joe Pesci and Marissa Tomei are in a hotel room arguing about stuff. He's talking about going hunting with the prosecutor in order to do the male-bonding thing in order to get strategic advantage at trial, and wondering what kind of pants to wear. Her response was a little story about bambi in the woods, taking a drink from a stream, "and BLAM!, a hunter blows her brains out! Now, I ask you, do you really thing she cared about what color pants the hunter had on?"

If a person with criminal intent injures another person, does it really matter (as a legal issue) whether he uses a gun, a switchblade or a bowie knife? It's always struck me as ironic that the most powerful weapon in the list is permitted, while the short-range weapons that actually require more skill are prohibited. The only possible justification is that we've distinguished between the "silent killers" (my dog's farts should be illegal) and the loud boom killers.

I kinda wonder sometimes if it was just overlooked to make it CWP rather than CHP. Anyone know?

Jakeiscrazy wrote:I kinda wonder sometimes if it was just overlooked to make it CWP rather than CHP. Anyone know?

Virginia used to have CWPs until '95ish? when Va became a shall issue state. At that time, part of the "compromise" was that a permit would only apply to handguns.

Update to this old thread. After much consideration, I decided to put my effort behind making the CHP a Concealed Weapons Permit. Delegate Jackson Miller submitted the Concealed Weapon Permit bill, HB 2386. Unfortunately, his bill was referred to the Crime Commission by the Militia, Police, and Public Safety Subcommittee #1. The stated intent was to deconflict it with other statutes, but in reality it was probably a delaying tactic which puts off broader consideration of the bill until next year. VCDL alerted members to write to the subcommittee membership encouraging them to move HB 2386 expeditiously, but the subcommittee did not do so.

That said, VCDL strongly supports Del Miller's bill and we're not going away.

ksanftleben wrote:

P99 wrote:I would say that this law needs to be amended to allow active duty to military carry. Who do I need to email? Needs to mirror Federal law.

Just curious, P99, what base/post do you now work at that allows you to carry personal auto/spring loaded knives?

Reason that I ask is that from my read of the policies at Belvoir or Quantico, it appears that the possession of a personally-owned auto/spring loaded knife on base/post is prohibited. Here's the applicable Belvoir reg and the Quantico order.

Don't know for sure, but my guess is that NOB Norfolk, Lee, Eutis, Hill, Dahlgren, or any other base or post around probably have similar orders or regs.

Also, I'm not sure what you mean by "military carry"? Were you issued an auto/spring loaded knife by your unit for daily official use that requires you to carry it on your person while off-base?

R/Kurt

When I was active duty at Ft Hood I had my boot knife taken by MP's. I used it as a medic to cut fabric and stuff faster than scissors.

So it appears this is a Class 1 misdemeanor. Realistic penalties for this offense alone?

I concur.

The laws of Virginia stay on the books WAY too long! I cannot see an issue with an auto knife, especially if I'm carrying a PISTOL!

Some people would tell you it is a holdover from when (say 100-150 years ago) black folks and poor white trash couldn't afford guns and the gentry didn't want them to carry knives (particularly not fast-opening ones), either for fear they might get uppity. Might be something to that.

So what is the worst case scenario? If someone were to carry an auto and get caught for that single offense, what can they expect? Fines? Jail time?

dorminWS wrote:Some people would tell you it is a holdover from when (say 100-150 years ago) black folks and poor white trash couldn't afford guns and the gentry didn't want them to carry knives (particularly not fast-opening ones), either for fear they might get uppity. Might be something to that.

The assisted-opening laws are from the '50s and early '60s, when there was a moral panic about switchblades being wielded by leather-wearing, greasy-haired punks riding motorcycles. People believed what they saw in the movies. Funny how that doesn't change.

I blame West Side Story.

Knife laws are stupid. Even more stupid than gun laws.

Then by God... let's start a letter writing/e-mail campaign about CHANGING these laws! Get all your friends/family on the e-mail tree to send a PLETHORA about removing these antiquated laws!

Ask 10 LEO's and you will get 10 different answers about knives. So the laws definitely need to be cleared up. What makes me "assume" assisted opening knives are OK is the fact that every Walmart in the state sells them. Remember the part about it being illegal to sell auto knives. Very frustrating when your are trying to be a law abiding citizen.

I carry one of those "assisted open" knives on my person daily. I've only been asked about it once by a LEO during a mix-up while I was out with friends. He asked me why I had a knife, and I told him I kept it on me because I used it to cut boxes at work. (I had gotten off of work a few hours before.) He shrugged, and gave it back to me, no more questions asked.

I wouldn't EVER tell a LEO, or anyone for that matter, that I carry that knife as a weapon. In fact, get the word "Weapon" out of your vocab when dealing with LEO's.

-Alex