Homesteading as Prepping?

[kelu]

How does one find out if a property is considered wetlands.

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I think swampman user can help you, if I'm remember right.

[Snakester]

This is a Great Thread !!! Thanks MBC for starting it. I think I have read all the reply's at least 3 times. This is EXACTLY what my wife and I are doing...We just bought 30 acres w/ pond in Dinwiddie Co. and are in the process of getting Permits applied for and quotes on Lot Clearing and Installing Well and Septic Systems. Being a Contractor I will handle all the building and designing to get everything we want. For now we are going to build a Cabin about 1,200 S.F. including a 16'x24' attached garage....Really more for storage and Hording Supplies. We may even build a Real House in 2 years when my wife retires. When I applied for the building Permit , I called this Building a "Survival Hut w/storage" ....I told them I didn't care what they Needed to call it , but this is Exactly what it is.
There are many thing to consider about Prepping... and many great ideas have already been brought up. We bought a New tractor a couple weeks ago and we are in the process of purchasing a 40' Shipping Container. I am also in the process of "Posting " the entire property. I have built a fence and gate to be able to keep secure as much as possible. We are in a Large Acreage Sub Division ( smallest lot is 20 acres). Good neighbors also help with keeping an eye on everything.
Oh yea...I have already started clearing and designing our Shooting Range !

[GeneFrenkle]

There is a ton of stuff left to consider. For example animals and metal buildings (more cost effective than custom built wood barns). With larger animals, if they kick they can go through the side of a metal building and cut themselves pretty badly. A possible solution would be getting lower grade wood fencing from the local mill and line the inside with it (gap betwen the board rows a bit). When the animal kicks, it'll break the wood and will slow the kick and hopefully not go throug the metal, too. Replace the board using the existing screw holes or nail into a stand off mounted to the metal frame.

A gun related consideration is where and how to store, and child comtinuing education about the guns. You'll have a duty to protect not only your family but your animals. If you hear your animals behacing strangely, you can't waste time because predators can cause a lot of damage. They are also really useful for euthanizing larger stock like goats and sheep as well as preventing property damage through groundhogs. Animal control, most likely be part of the Sheriff's department, will probably expect you to handle your own nuisance animals. Again, zoning might come into play as well as area incorporation.

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[Jakeiscrazy]

Hold on just one minute!!!

What about the shooting range! Obviously the most important part. It depends on the specif property has to how far you will have to shoot but it but be super cool to have a rifle range with some distance and a separate pistol range for practicing you up fun stuff(shooting and moving, drawing from a holster, ect)

I have personally always liked the idea of buying some property and building a cabin using the trees on the property. There a lot of considerations with that and a million ways to do it but it would be really cool.

With regards to water. Depending on how deep your well is you can use hand pumps for backup. One that comes to mind is the Simple Pump. Check it and the guy that makes this video has tons of great videos on homesteading. Honestly if you have the time watch them all.

[kelu]

Before spending a lot of time and energy in a new farm, please take a look at what happens to others, then check if such maps and plans exist for the area where you want to move.
In short, they want to take the land and move you to an apartment.
http://www.theeastbayteaparty.com/green ... ideos.html
http://www.citizenstownhall.org/

[dorminWS]

Looks like homesteading is sort of bucking the trend, but the quote below goes more to kelu's point. Rural dwellers will not only be in the minority in this country, they'll shortly be in the minority globally; and to the extent the UN gets to call the shots in the future, they'll probably be viewed as a troublesome minority that won't take orders from those who know better than them- - - pretty much like we gun owners are fast becoming.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
-- the world is now more urban than rural, and the century of the megacity has begun. In 1950, there were two cities with a population of more than ten million. By 1975, there were three. As of 2007, there were nineteen, and by 2025, the United Nations estimates that there will be twenty-seven. There are ninety cities in China alone that have a population of greater than one million.:

"[Since 2008], for the first time ever, we have more people living in cities than out on the land. For the first time, most of us have no substantive ability to feed or water ourselves. We have become reliant upon technology, trade, and com¬merce to carry out these most primitive of functions. Sometime in 2008, the human species crossed the threshold toward becoming a different animal: an urban creature, geographically divorced from the natural world that still continues to feed and fuel us. ...

"The reason that the world's rural people are moving into cities is that they can make more money in town. This is partly because of the described growth of urban economies, and partly because demand for farm labor falls as agriculture commercializes, mechanizes, and becomes export-oriented. Worldwide employment in agriculture is falling fast and in 2006, for the first time ever, it was surpassed by employment in the services sector. ...

"This urban shift is driving major demographic changes around the globe. City dwellers are projected to roughly double in number by 2050, rising from 3.3 billion in 2007 to 6.4 billion in 2050. However, the geography of this is not uniform. Urban majorities came to Europe and America decades ago, in the 1960s, 1950s, or even sooner. These places are already more than 70% urban today. This new trend is most dramatic in the developing world, especially Asia and Africa, the most populous places on Earth.


Tokyo is the world's largest megacity

"For the last two decades, cities in the developing world have been growing by about three million people per week. That is equivalent to adding one more Seattle to the planet every day. Asia is only about 40% urban today, but by 2050 that number will top 70% in China, with over one billion new city slickers in that country alone. Already, places like Chongqing, Xiamen, and Shenzhen are growing more than 10% annually.

"About 38% of Africans live in cities today, but by 2050 more than half will. While Africa will still be less urbanized than Europe or North America today, this is nonetheless a profound transformation. When combined with its fast population growth rate, this means that Africa will triple the size of its cities over the next forty years. At 1.2 billion people, Africa will hold nearly a quarter of the world's urban population. ...

"The century of megacities has already begun. From just two in 1950 and three in 1975, we grew to nineteen by 2007 and expect to have twenty-seven by 2025. Furthermore, in sheer size alone our global urban culture is shift¬ing east. Of the eight new megacities anticipated over the next fifteen years, five are in Asia, two in Africa, and just one in Europe. Zero new megacities are anticipated for the Americas. Instead, this massive urbanization is hap¬pening in some of our most populous countries: Bangladesh, China, India, Indonesia, Nigeria, and Pakistan. New York City was the world's second-largest metropolis in 1977, when Liza Minnelli first sang the hit song 'New York, New York' (later popularized by Frank Sinatra) to Robert De Niro in a Martin Scorsese movie. By 2050, the 'City That Never Sleeps' will be struggling just to stay in the top ten."

World Megacities of Ten Million or More
(population in millions)
2008 report by the United Nations Popula¬tion Division

1950
New York -- Newark, USA (12.3)
Tokyo, Japan (11.3)

1975
Tokyo, Japan (26.6)
New York -- Newark, USA (15.9)
Mexico City, Mexico (10.7)

2007
Tokyo, Japan (35.7)
New York -- Newark, USA (19.0)
Mexico City, Mexico (19.0)
Mumbai, India (19.0)
Sao Paulo, Brazil (18.
Delhi, India (15.9)
Shanghai, China (15.0)
Kolkata (Calcutta), India (14.
Dhaka, Bangladesh (13.5)
Buenos Aires, Argentina (12.
Los Angeles -- Long Beach -- Santa Ana, USA (12.5)
Karachi, Pakistan (12.1)
Al-Qahirah (Cairo), Egypt (11.9)
Rio de Janeiro, Brazil (11.7)
Osaka -- Kobe, Japan (11.3)
Beijing, China (11.1)
Manila, Philippines (11.1)
Moskva (Moscow), Russia (10.5)
Istanbul, Turkey (10.1)

2025
Tokyo, Japan (36.4)
Mumbai, India (26.4)
Delhi, India (22.5)
Dhaka, Bangladesh (22.0)
Sao Paulo, Brazil (21.4)
Mexico City, Mexico (21.0)
New York -- Newark, USA (20.6)
Kolkata (Calcutta), India (20.6)
Shanghai, China (19.4)
Karachi, Pakistan (19.1)
Kinshasa, Democratic Republic of the Congo (16.
Lagos, Nigeria (15.
Al-Qahirah (Cairo), Egypt (15.6)
Manila, Philippines (14.
Beijing, China (14.5)
Buenos Aires, Argentina (13.
Los Angeles -- Long Beach -- Santa Ana, USA (13.7)
Rio de Janeiro, Brazil (13.4)
Jakarta, Indonesia (12.4)
Istanbul, Turkey (12.1)
Guangzhou, Guangdong, China (11.
Osaka -- Kobe, Japan (11.4)
Moskva (Moscow), Russia (10.5)
Lahore, Pakistan (10.5)
Shenzhen, China (10.2)
Chennai, India (10.1)
Paris, France (10.0)

Author: Laurence C. Smith
Title: The World in 2050: Four Forces Shaping Civilization's Northern Future
Publisher: Plume, Penguin Group
Date: Copyright 2011 by Laurence C. Smith
Pages: 30-34

[mamabearCali]

I do not have a magic ball to look into the future. I cannot see ahead 20 30 40 years. What I do know is that by living where I do, with the expenses that I have, we have precious few extra resources at the end of the month.

If we can get 100% out of debt and can live more on the fat of the land (and the sweat of our brow) we will be more qualified to handle whatever comes our way.

If we continue in our hand to mouth paycheck to paycheck existence it does not matter how much we want to plan and prepare for we will be screwed.

Right now I do not see them coming for our land this moment....in 20 years....maybe. But I cannot worry about that. I hope by then to have contingency plans upon contingency plans.


As for the contingency plans think on this.

This is a big country. It took the entire might of our military to control Iraq a relatively small nation. Unless they are planning to go William the conqueror style "harrying of the north" and burn the land and destroy everyone and everything not even the UN could take this whole nation. The UN can't even get a grip on Iran and the slaughter in Africa. I doubt their efficiency in a place that might actually cost lives.

This is but step one of a whole series of things that we plan to do to make our family more able to ride out hard times. But it is step one.

[Snakester]

None of us know what lies ahead...The more news we watch the worst it seems to get. there's no "Good News" out there, if it is I have surely missed it . All we can do is try to make an effort to prepare for the worst and hope for something not so bad. There's more people "Prepping" than we think. A lot do not or will not admit it. I for one do know a lot of "Preppers" and people that are stock piling everything from food and h2o to Ammo and alcohol. My wife and I are naturally Hoarders / Stock Pilers . We buy everything we can in bulk...Can goods / rice / and anything with long shelf life. Always rotating our stock....We will NEVER go hungry.
Stocking one thing always leads to having to stock piling other things. It's no sense having food if you don't have water. Then you have to stock paper products , spices , Rx items , Cloths , guns and ammo...the list goes on . I'm glad people here are talking about this...Maybe together we can survive the Storm that is coming !

[Reverenddel]

I think that's why we're all here anyway...

We're all dinosaurs. Non-Dependents on guv'mint.

Pisses them off. If I have to "travel" to keep alive? I'm okay with that... Pulling as far back into a National Park that they cannot find me? Good enough!

[dorminWS]

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/companies ... 00326.html
More indicia that the trend is for the world to beat a path to the cities. Now big corporations are into the act.

Not arguing against going to the country; I like the idea myself. And in the shorter (10-20 years) run, it may not have any practical impact unless you are close to or dependent upon activities centered in the really big cities. Just observing that it may be swimming against the current.

[mamabearCali]

Any dead fish can go with the current it takes a live one to swim upstream! Neither I nor my children will ever be "dead fish".

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[Reverenddel]

NICE! KUDO TO MAMMA!

Think of this? If all the "independents" go "into the woods", and all the "pawns of dead fish" go into the city? We're libel to see the same thing happen to Mega-Cities that happened to Rome.

Three Names:

Attilla- Alaric- Jesus

Without those three? Rome wouldn't have fallen so easily. Spaced out, and with massive followings. One? Became his own religion.

[GeneFrenkle]

I'm not sure where "into the woods" is because either it'll be squatting on private property or state/federal land.

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[jdonovan]

just catching up on this thread...

So far this is what I have planned. A wood burning stove. One can live without AC here in VA, but the winters could be lethal without heat

If you are in a county with building codes, I don't know of any that allow an occupancy permit without a conventional heating system. I know a few who have gotten around this by putting in some electric baseboard heaters, but be prepared for this if you build a home.

In VA an acre of good timberland will produce between 1/2 - 1 cord of wood per year. I currently heat a larger home full time with wood and go through 4-6 cords a year. If you are cooking on it too, year round that could be quite a bit of wood to keep your demands met. If you are on less-ideal land, say a mountain slope, with shallow soils you might be able to produce only 1/8 of a cord a year.

A good general rule of thumb these days on the east coast, is if you've got old trees (50 years+) on the land, its because that area wasn't able to be farmed effectively, or economically. This should be a hint when you go looking for property.

I think if you want to get 'fuel' from the land, I would consider a 10 acre woodlot to be about the smallest I'd want. That should net you 5-7 cords per year. Then you will need storage for 2-3 years worth of wood. While you can burn 1 year dried wood, 18-24 month wood works better.

Most counties in VA have soils maps available. Make sure you look at them, and the properties soils when you evaluate the parcel. You can learn quite a bit about the land without putting a foot on it from these maps.

I finally found my retreat place and am in process of making it happen. But it took looking at literally 1000's of parcels on paper, then walking several hundred and this process took about 7 years to find the 'just right' one.

Now that I have the right dirt, we are going through the site planning, house design, etc...

I'd be more than happy sharing my search notes, and helping you evaluate land you are considering. Drop me a PM, and we can talk some more.

[Reverenddel]

jdonavan...share...share...

I concur. I have "half-heartedly" looked at property for 10+ years, but never found anything that made me put my keys in the ignition.

[mamabearCali]

Thanks for the reminder. We will be building to code as we don't need any trouble...additionally I like redundancy. So I would want a thermostat system (propane most likely) and then the wood stove on top of that.

Some of the areas we are looking at are old farms with timber behind them. I am not looking to farm as an income, but rather to garden and have a few animals to supplement my families diet. So I may be wrong but I think we might be able to get away with a lesser piece of land, provided it had the things we needed.

[Snakester]

We started looking for property in January of this year and closed in early November. We looked at 17 pieces of land , all over 20 acres. We actually purchased the very first track of land we looked at. We made offers on two other tracks and even had a contract signed on a track , but could not get clear title .
As far as building codes , all locations in VA has finally caught up with Chesterfield and Henrico. I have been looking at Mitsubishi Electric for our Heating and Cooling . I have installed several in additions that I have built for customers and everybody seems to really be pleased. I am still going with a wood stove with cooking surface for back up heat.
We are going to build a Cabin now ( about 1,200 s.f.) and maybe a house at a later date. Even though we have 30 acres Dinwiddie Co. , like most VA counties , we are going to have to attach the house to the Cabin. The reason is there can not be but One Single Family Dwelling on any building Lot. I guess we will get through it !

[dusterdude]

Randy,is 30 acres one building lot?


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[Snakester]

Yeap, recorded as one building lot. Dinwiddie has let us keep 27 acres under Forestry Land Use and 3 acres zoned Residential.

[GeneFrenkle]

Why residential and not agricultural or something else?

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