How to freak out an Atheist.

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Kreutz
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Re: How to freak out an Atheist.

Post by Kreutz »

MrJog wrote:I'm sorry if you are scared that your religion is falling out of popularity.
Theists vastly outnumber atheists around the world man, even if we lump in those pesky agnostics no one seems to know what to make of (especially the agnostics themselves). :whistle:

Even in "officially" atheistic nations like China and Cuba one need not to look very hard to find some kind of religious fellowship.
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Re: How to freak out an Atheist.

Post by ShotgunBlast »

Atheists now get their own lawn decorations to go right next to the Ten Commandments.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/06 ... cross-u-s/

This is exactly why my personal preference is to have no decorations on government property. This is a divisive issue that gets the focus off of the real problems of our country. Some of the people in the pictures look like they're ready to start swinging (Christians obviously :yankchain: )
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Re: How to freak out an Atheist.

Post by dusterdude »

ShotgunBlast wrote:As an Atheist, I'm not freaked out. I think it's a bit of a stretch on the definitions of the words "faith", "religion", and church and somehow trying to apply those words most-often used in a religious context to somehow apply to a concept devoid of religion, but that's just me. That's not to offend Rev or anyone else who agrees with the sentiment of the original post; y'all think what you want. Of course like Kreutz mentioned of many Atheists, I don't have a hive mind, congregate with other Atheists, don't plot and scheme on how I can piss off religious people, don't really think about me being an Atheist until it gets pointed out to me, and don't think about religion in general. I don't care if you practice what you practice, just leave me be. Can't we just go to the range and shoot stuff?

As far as nativity decorations or 10 commandments and such on government property, I don't have a problem with that as long as there's a star of David and Koran scripture right next to it. Fair treatment and all. Since most people tend not to be able to agree on that, I usually settle for not having anything there at all.
dusterdude wrote:Im still wondering about the "separation of church and state",my copy of the constitution doesnt have that.can someone help me find one that does?
Your copy must not have the 1st amendment then that states "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." I reckon your copy does have that, but you're just not understanding it correctly. As understood by Jefferson and upheld many times by the SCOTUS, there will be no official government religion. Like others have said "freedom of religion does not mean freedom from religion" and I agree with that. So put everyone's religious decorations on government property and there's no official endorsement from the government, but like I said earlier most people can't agree to have everyone's decorations on the property so no decorations end up on the property.

I personally don't understand what the big fuss is about religion on government property. If I wanted my kids to have religious teachings, I'd send them to a private school that teaches them about religion or home school them. If I were a religious person I figure I'd want to promote my beliefs and not rely on the government to do it for me. As inept as the government is in just about everything, I wouldn't rely on them to be the ones championing my religious beliefs. I'd rather save the religious decorations for a place I'd LIKE to go to and congregate with like-minded people, not a location that is dreadful to be at and filled with people that may not even believe in what the decorations mean.
SpanishInquisition wrote:As long as someone's internal belief system has no harm to living and breathing persons as part of it's core, it's no better or no worse than others.
Out of the two pages in this thread, I can identify with this the most.
sb,the trick word in the 1st admendment is "law" and there are no laws in this country recognizing any one religion but,if a city,state or federal institution wants to put up a christmas then damn well let em
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Re: How to freak out an Atheist.

Post by MrJog »

Not with tax dollars.

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Re: How to freak out an Atheist.

Post by meadmkr »

I prefer to call myself an agnostic. Frankly I have zero use for any organized religion even after being brought up Roman Catholic and later Methodist. Too much hypocrisy in far too many religious institutions.
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Re: How to freak out an Atheist.

Post by SHMIV »

@meadmkr: I was also partially raised in the Methodist Church. My mother was raised as a Catholic, so I can understand the frustrations. But, instead of going agnostic, I have gone Non-Denominational. I try to find preachers who preach the whole Bible, and not just what suits their agenda.

I reckon that any religion can be perverted to manipulate a set of followers. Even Atheism; just ask Marx, Lenin & Co.

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Re: How to freak out an Atheist.

Post by MrJog »

Religions are sets of beliefs. Atheism is a single belief. The bible, being open to interpretation, can be used to teach different philosophy's. I could attempt to convince someone that they should stone homosexuals. It doesn't matter if you agree with this interpretation of the bible or not. That isn't the point. The point is that the bible, as part of Christian faith, can be used to teach murder.

Explain to me how the single belief, that no deity exists, can be perverted. How can I logically go from "there is no god" to "so you should be a communist?"

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Re: How to freak out an Atheist.

Post by FiremanBob »

I did that earlier in this thread.
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Re: How to freak out an Atheist.

Post by Kreutz »

MrJog wrote:Religions are sets of beliefs. Atheism is a single belief. The bible, being open to interpretation, can be used to teach different philosophy's. I could attempt to convince someone that they should stone homosexuals. It doesn't matter if you agree with this interpretation of the bible or not. That isn't the point. The point is that the bible, as part of Christian faith, can be used to teach murder.
How does one "teach murder"? People have been killing each other long before even the most primitive notions of religion cropped up in the Neolithic era. If you wish to observe the pattern of "religious wars" note they tend to occur for economic reasons and are merely dressed in religious trappings. I really can't think of a single purely religious war actually since "religion" cropped up in Mesopotamia..
Explain to me how the single belief, that no deity exists, can be perverted. How can I logically go from "there is no god" to "so you should be a communist?"
Nature abhors a vacuum. Something will fill your heart, maybe it will be good, maybe it won't, but you will form an ethos regardless of religion. It just happens atheism is heavily intertwined with communism.
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Re: How to freak out an Atheist.

Post by MrJog »

I'd like a real response, not a bunch of none sense wrapped in opinions.

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Re: How to freak out an Atheist.

Post by Kreutz »

MrJog wrote:I'd like a real response, not a bunch of none sense wrapped in opinions.

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How is it opinion that if you trace the root causes of so-called "religious wars" they were not about religion? Or that atheism and communism share a history?

:confused:

In any event this is why I avoided other atheists much of my life, I found them irritating, narrow-minded, and stand-offish, traits they accused religious people of. Well, stare into the abyss and it stares back, the horse fcker was right about that much I guess.

Now thats an opinion I guess.
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Re: How to freak out an Atheist.

Post by FiremanBob »

Jog, when you start writing real, good-faith posts, you'll stand a better chance of getting real responses.

As ye sow...

Anyway, my post pointed you to a real response. The militant atheists, of which you seem to be one, do have a religion called "Progressivism" which bears a close kinship to the cultural Marxism of the Frankfurt School, and their god is called Government.

There, I just gave you a bunch of terms to google and learn about.
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Re: How to freak out an Atheist.

Post by ratherfish »

OK...

Just the Supreme Court as documented on about.com
http://atheism.about.com/library/decisi ... wIndex.htm

Supreme Court Decisions on Religious Liberty
Recently Added Court Decisions

Below are links to some of the most recent cases added to this site - cases about religion, privacy, and more. Cases are added on a regular basis, so it is helpful to keep checking back here to see what is new. Some of the cases are those which have been decided recently, but many others are older cases which may have renewed relevance because of recent political, legal or social events.

Dodge v. Salvation Army (1989)
Can religious organizations receiving federal, state, and local government funding discriminate against people whose religion they don't like? A district court in Mississippi ruled "no," finding in favor of a pagan and against the Salvation Army.

Glassroth v. Moore (2002)
Roy Moore installed a huge granite monument to the Ten Commandments in Alabama, saying that their presence would help to remind people that God was sovereign over them and over the laws of the nation. A District Court, however, found that his actions were an obvious violation of the separation of church and state, ordering him to remove the monument.

Colautti v. Franklin (1979)
Should doctors be required to try to save the life of a possibly viable fetus when performing an abortion? A Pennsylvania law created such a requirement, but the Supreme Court ruled that the law was unconstitutional. Find out why...

FW/PBS, Inc. v. City of Dallas (1990)
The Supreme Court lays down rules for cities' ability to create licensing, inspection, and zoning requirements for sexually oriented businesses. In the process, they rule as unconstitutional such requirements created by the city of Dallas.

Ganulin v. United States (1999)
Is it constitutional for the United States government to recognize Christmas as an official paid holiday? Richard Ganulin, an atheist lawyer, argued that it isn't and filed suit, but a U.S. District Court ruled against him.

ACLU v. Schundler (1999)
The Third Circuit Court of Appeals found that a city's crèche and menorah display was unconstitutional when it did not have any secular symbols with it, but it became constitutional when enough secular symbols were added to a new, modified display.

Bridenbaugh v. O'Bannon (1993)
According to the Seventh Circuit Court of Appeals, a government is permitted to give employees a religious holiday off as a paid vacation day, but only if the government can provide a legitimate secular purpose for choosing that day instead of any other day.

Clever v. Cherry Hill Township (1993)
How far can a public school go when including religious symbols in school functions? According to a New Jersey District Court, any religious symbols can be used, but only so long as they are part of a legitimate, secular education program.

Bauchman v. West High School (1997)
Is it a violation of the separation of church and state to make students sing Christian songs in a public school choir? According to the 10th Circuit Court of Appeals, it isn't a violation - not even if the teacher involved uses his position to promote his religion.

Florey v. Sioux Falls School District (1980)
Roger Florey, an atheist, filed suit against a local school district's holiday programs, claiming that singing of religious carols during Christmas concerts, like "Silent Night" and "O Come All Ye Faithful", were a violation of the separation of church and state.

Sechler v. State College Area School District (2000)
Jarrod Sechler, a "youth pastor" at a local Christian church, filed suit against the State College Area High School because their holiday program was insufficiently Christian for him. According to a U.S. District Court, the presence of non-Christian symbols did not advance either those religions or express hostility towards Christianity.

Widmar v. Vincent (1981)
Should religious student groups be given the same access to university facilities as secular student groups, or would that mean that the university is exhibiting support and/or encouragement to religious beliefs? According to the Supreme Court, all groups must be treated equally, including religious organizations.

Mueller v. Allen (1983)
The Supreme Court rules 5-4 that a Minnesota law allowing parents to make tax deductions for expenses incurred through things like textbooks and other supplies at private schools is constitutional, even though most of the benefit goes to religious and not secular schools.

Zelman v. Simmons (2002)
The Supreme Court rules 5-4 that a Cleveland, Ohio, program which spends large amounts of public money on subsidizing education at religious schools is constitutional.

Newdow v. U.S. Congress (2002)
The Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals rules that the addition of the words "under God" to the Pledge of Allgiance back in 1954 was unconstitutional.

ESA v. Rylander (2001)
A Texas district court ruled that a nontheistic Ethical Culture Society deserved a religious tax exemption. The Court rejected State arguments that religion must be defined by a belief in a "Supreme Being."

Williams v. Lara (2000)
The Texas Supreme Court decided that an "all fundamentalist" prison section was unconstitutional, even though the prisoners volunteered to be there where other religious beliefs were excluded.

LeVake v. Independent School District (2001)
A federal district court finds that a school may remove a teacher from teaching a biology class when that teacher, a creationist, cannot adequately teach evolution.

FFRF v. Faith Works (2002)
A federal district court decides that the state government cannot give direct, unrestricted funding to a "faith based" drug counseling program which also includes a heavy dose of religious indoctrination.

FFRF v. Rhea County Board of Education (2002)
A federal district court decides that a public school cannot have students from the local Bryan College come in to teach Bible classes.

O'Bannon v. Indiana Civil Liberties Union (2001)
The Supreme Court has recently refused to hear a case about a large monument in Indiana which would have included the Ten Commandments. What was the original 7th Circuit Court decision, and why did they reach that conclusion? What does this mean for future cases?

Watchtower Society vs. Village of Stratton (2001)
Should people going door-to-door for solicitations, canvassing, etc. be required to get a permit first? The Jehovah's Witnesses don't think so, and challenged just such a law in the Village of Stratton, Ohio. The 6th Circuit Court decided against them, but the case will soon be decided by the Supreme Court.

Who....are the haters?
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Re: How to freak out an Atheist.

Post by SHMIV »

I suppose that one can say, "there is no God, so be a Communist" just as easily as one can say, " God is love, but hates f*gs". And, both statements tend to be spoken by folks that either have a personal agenda, or are greatly misguided.

Incidently, the statement that "there is no God" may be singular, but there are most certainly more beliefs that are implied by that statement. Atheism is just as much a set of beliefs as any other religion.

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Re: How to freak out an Atheist.

Post by ratherfish »

" God is love, but hates f*gs"

Funny I never hear that one from fellow Christians....just gay activists and the rabble that makes the evening news.
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Re: How to freak out an Atheist.

Post by SHMIV »

Well Fish, I have seen/heard it from folks that pose as Christians, but whether or not they were ACTUAL Christians is debatable.

Actual Christians can tell the difference between sinful behavior and sinful people.

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