Virginia Gun Owners Forum - VGOF

jasonallen127 wrote:The question I had in my mind as I read the horrible news online: Why is there not an armed presence at a school? Every single school I've attended in my life has had a police officer either immediately nearby (police station across the street from my elementary school), or in the building with the sole purpose of being on-call. I feel that schools SHOULD be gun-free zones for civilians, but having a trained, police department employed Student Resource Officer on-site could have deterred this shooting, or stopped this shooter sooner.

Evil and cowardice will always seek the soft target. If a target is hardened, they will simply go somewhere else.
Teach your children right from wrong. Teach them how to discern between good and evil, and exhort the good.

Pray and seek The Truth.

Yet the media doen't say a thing about the video games that may have influenced this POS and others to act out like this, Guns are and easy excuse and target because they were the choice of these twisted brain dead individuals used to carry out their plan..The antis are gonna attempt a major one this time I feel so we will have to really keep our cool and be ready to handle it.

The mental health system in the US especially in the public school system is broken. Here in Virginia there are 5 classifications for students.
GE- General Education
LD- Learning Disabled
ED- Emotionally Disabled/Delayed
MR/MD- Mentally Retarded/Disabled/Delayed (not sure if they still use retarded as a description anymore)
PD- Physically Disabled
In the public school system anyone falling into any category except GE will get an Individual Progress Plan (IEP).
In Virginia every student the right to an education without fear of violence however the rights of children with and IEP trump the rights of a child without one. A child which is ED can get away with hitting teachers and students with little consequence and often times it’s excused because they have a disability. Administration hides this fact which only emboldens this behavior.
My wife is a teacher for Fairfax County and the stories she tells me makes my blood boil.

When you have young males with mental problems playing violent video games and watching sadistic movies this becomes their reality.
The sad thing is I think society is so desensitized to violence and such disregard for life this might become the norm.

Zykur, I hear ya. My gf is no longer working in the educational system in large part due to this phenomenon.

Next step: teachers beaten by students. Quite common in all ex-communist countries. Moral values are broken definitively.

kelu wrote:Next step: teachers beaten by students. Quite common in all ex-communist countries. Moral values are broken definitively.

This happened more than once in my middle class school.

Someone I know told me Obama was crying (crocodile tears likely) at a press conference about this, she said, "Ifthosekids had simply been aborted he'd have defendd it as "the mothers right to choose".

Well, a rotten culture bears rotten fruit I guess.

Things get fuzzy. We had reports that the rifle was in the trunk and never used, and it had only 2 handguns.
Now we have this:
[Updated at 4:11 p.m. ET] More on what the state's chief medical examiner told reporters minutes ago in Newtown: He said the "long weapon" was used in the shooting, and that the weapon caused all of the wounds that he knew of.

He didn't say what that weapon was, but a law enforcement source has previously said that the gunman was found dead with next to three guns: a semi-automatic .223-caliber Bushmaster rifle and two pistols made by Glock and Sig Sauer.
http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/12/15/ch ... ?hpt=hp_t1

We heard first about a second gunman (like in Aurora). Then it vanished. You will never heard about it again officially. I put my money on a second shooter.
I smell BS and intoxication. But that's me.
That crazy kid maybe did not fired a single shot...
I prayed today for truth to come up.

Time and time again we have seen what happens when criminals don't obey the law.
Laws need to change so more people have a chance. In every case over the years one or two bullets returned would have stopped the murders.
When our own govt is afraid they blame law abiding citizens. (or as they see us subjects)
OK rant off.

CT ME says everyone died from rifle shots.
http://news.msn.com/us/update-obama-to- ... ial-sunday

Yet, the rifle was found in the trunk?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLrxSgkqJQc

ETA: Nevermind... mystery solved
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-575 ... 4-weapons/

The mother should have secured the guns in the house. There are safes available now that permit ready-access to a firearm while keeping it secure from kids.

There will be new gun regulations as a result of this — of that I'm fairly certain and that's a shame and will be predictably ineffective — just look at Chicago; the mecca of gun control with a very high gun crime rate, a paradox that gun control advocates can't reconcile.

It's statistically more likely for an American to die in a car accident then it is to be shot.
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr60/nvsr60_03.pdf Again, gun control advocates can't provide a reasonable argument for not going after cars like they're going after guns.

When drunk driving was such a problem in the 80's, did MADD go after booze? No. They educated society (school kids especially) about driving drunk and they made it such a stigma to get caught driving drunk that the number of DUI's dropped significantly. That's what we need now instead of more gun control; education and stigmatizing gun violence.

Just heard from VERY reliable source this guy, the guy in Arizona, the guy in Colorado, and the guy in Oregon were all on the same anti-depressant. I heard earlier today from another source that they were on same anti-psychotic.

Aggression and anger have been reported particularly early in treatment or after treatment discontinuation.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

The cause of this type of tragedy is the darkness and coarseness that pervades our culture. Peggy Noonan has written about this decline on these pages and it needs to be addressed in this context once more. You can see the darkness in our movies, television, video games, music, online, clothing, tattoos, piercings and our books. Popular TV shows like 24 or The Walking Dead are not built from solid data sets that feed the better angels of our nature, but from the constant urge to push at a barrier that allegedly has no consequences. What our culture fills its mind up with has consequences.

When the children of America slip into a black t-shirt covered with skulls and settle down in front of a 96-inch TV to watch people shoot each other in glorious color and surround sound, do we think there will be no consequences? When our children, boys mostly, are left to enjoy hours of entertainment through a gory, post-apocalyptic, first-person shooter video game, what do we think we are doing to them? The Hunger Games? Please.

Our American culture is producing more cruelty and mass murder than ever before and it’s not because of the guns. I have been raised in the “gun culture” that is often tagged with blame for all gun violence and I’ve been shooting for over 40 years. The gun culture that worships at death’s door instead of the Church is not my gun culture. The gang members that shoot themselves daily are not my gun culture. These are symptoms of the rot that rises, as bile does, in the back of the throat of America. The rot is caused by an over stimulated, uneducated, irreligious, culture that is being brainwashed by the entertainment industry that the darkness of their products have no effect on our children. It’s easy to see if you see what is there.

The gun culture that I belong to is made up of good people, churchgoers, Kiwanis, Freemasons, Moose, Marines, teachers, accountants, country folk, city folk, and many more. We are the America that is seemingly slipping away and in over 40 years I’ve not known one murderer nor have I witnessed even one dangerous incident with a gun. Look hard at how we treat each other.

Look hard at what goes into our children’s brains. Garbage in equal’s garbage out. Drag your children to church and teach them about the sanctity of life. This loss of the sanctity for human life is a result of our addiction to entertainment and I fear that it’s the beginning of the end.

This piece of poop took the cowards way out. Too bad we couldnt round him up and make anexample of the spineless, sackless piece of poop excuse for a man. I would like to take a flat head screw driver and pop off his knee caps and then get a room full of kids to play dodgeball with him. And to think that coward is feeding Feinstein and company more fuel to their gun grabbing agenda. I hope eternity in hell is.enough punishment

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

38superfan wrote:The cause of this type of tragedy is the darkness and coarseness that pervades our culture. Peggy Noonan has written about this decline on these pages and it needs to be addressed in this context once more. You can see the darkness in our movies, television, video games, music, online, clothing, tattoos, piercings and our books. Popular TV shows like 24 or The Walking Dead are not built from solid data sets that feed the better angels of our nature, but from the constant urge to push at a barrier that allegedly has no consequences. What our culture fills its mind up with has consequences.

When the children of America slip into a black t-shirt covered with skulls and settle down in front of a 96-inch TV to watch people shoot each other in glorious color and surround sound, do we think there will be no consequences? When our children, boys mostly, are left to enjoy hours of entertainment through a gory, post-apocalyptic, first-person shooter video game, what do we think we are doing to them? The Hunger Games? Please.

Our American culture is producing more cruelty and mass murder than ever before and it’s not because of the guns. I have been raised in the “gun culture” that is often tagged with blame for all gun violence and I’ve been shooting for over 40 years. The gun culture that worships at death’s door instead of the Church is not my gun culture. The gang members that shoot themselves daily are not my gun culture. These are symptoms of the rot that rises, as bile does, in the back of the throat of America. The rot is caused by an over stimulated, uneducated, irreligious, culture that is being brainwashed by the entertainment industry that the darkness of their products have no effect on our children. It’s easy to see if you see what is there.

The gun culture that I belong to is made up of good people, churchgoers, Kiwanis, Freemasons, Moose, Marines, teachers, accountants, country folk, city folk, and many more. We are the America that is seemingly slipping away and in over 40 years I’ve not known one murderer nor have I witnessed even one dangerous incident with a gun. Look hard at how we treat each other.

Look hard at what goes into our children’s brains. Garbage in equal’s garbage out. Drag your children to church and teach them about the sanctity of life. This loss of the sanctity for human life is a result of our addiction to entertainment and I fear that it’s the beginning of the end.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
You're dead on, 38superfan.

I, too grew up in a gun culture that instilled safety and responsibility above all else, tolerated absolutely NO breaches of those rules, and existed within the framework of family, church and community (as opposed to replacing all that, as appears to be the case with these mass murderers).

While reading your post it occurred to me that the gratuitous violence, gore and moral depravity that is now offered on primetime TV and the rest of pop culture (not to mention cable and these damned games all the kids are obsessed with) might have some disturbing parallels with the games and other dealings-out of death and gore that the powers that USED TO be used to placate the mobs after Rome resorted to bread and circuses to hold the empire together. What we’ve been talking about here, combined with entitlements, really seem to me to be the 21st-century version of the old Roman bread and circuses. And we know what happened to Roman civilization. I suppose there is no point in pondering whether it is a cause or a symptom; because either way we are probably way too far down the slippery slope to come back home.

I played violent games. I played D&D. I listened to heavy metal music.

Difference? I am a military brat. My behavior reflected on my father's career. My behavior reflected on the USA when I lived overseas.

My mother is Japanese. My behavior reflected on my family.

My parents taught me right from wrong. They instilled in me that doing the right thing was more important than the easy way. They taught me character was more important than possessions.

That's the difference. Kids today are taught by example that greed, lack of compassion, entitlement and superiority are the way to act.

That all said, I also think sometimes, people are just crazy. That's where WE need to build the proper culture and systems to take care of them.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

My condolences.

I have explained to people who are NOT in the "gun culture", if you pay attention, the animals that kill others choose "Gun-Free" zones because those within those zones are NOT ALLOWED TO DEFEND THEMSELVES!

The older I get, the sadder I get. From the senseless loss, and the emotional idiots with their knee-jerk reactions.

Good post, 38superfan.

@38superfan - but not all ways. My kids grew up in the very atmosphere you describe. Hell, my son took me out with more than one head shot in BattleFIeld 2. The kids would come over to our house (96" projection screen) and blow each other away in whatever shoote'em up was popular at the moment.

However, they, as you referred to, they were also church-goers, Scouts, athletes and scholars. They key (and I harp on this) is *parenting.* Living by example, and teaching the young ones that when you die IRL, you don;t get the chance to choose your next spawn point.

This latest horror was all about parenting. In this case, the parent failed fatally.

The parent did fail, but that was contributory. The evil doer, an adult, is still responsible for his own behavior and actions.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

What is driving me crazy is that we have tens of thousands of soft targets in this country. All of them well known, all of them packed to the gills 5 days out of the week with the innocent and vunerable. With the exception of a a few million homsechoolers we have the nations hope dreams and future in an unguarded facility most of their young lives. Those who go crazy and want to kill people can do so with ease with whatever implement they want to (bomb, firearm, hatchet, machete) because there will be little to no resistance. We are seeing the failure of gun free zones and the liberal media wants to double down and pass more laws that will not do a blessed thing.

For those that can.....if a person were to break into our "school" they would find the "principal and vice principal" armed and ready to defend their students at all costs. If homeschooling is an option for your family....take it....don't trust the schools to protect your children. They are your precious charges, in your protective trust. If you are concerned over curriculum, don't be. There are thousands of curriculum, one will work for you and yours. Some are very parent intensive, some your children do online. It does require one parent to be at home, but often work schedules can be coordinated to make it happen. If you can make it happen for your family do it. Your children will be safer and better educated in the long run.

For those that can't......we need to have armed guards at the doors of our schools. If we require these children to be there by force of law then we need to provide for their safety. Every school that opens tomorrow is a soft target for another person to go crazy. This is not ok. I think the best and quickest way to do so is to train teachers who are willing. If we are so darn scared of firearms, and a teacher possibly being attacked and disarmed....then have them carry less than lethal weapons (tasers and pepper spray).....Anything is better than nothing. A pointy stick is better than finger nails and teeth.