Virginia Gun Owners Forum - VGOF

By growth, I mean expansions of government programs and added government programs. I suppose that an increase in debt would come with that.

By "Take It Back", I mean from the professional politicians, corrupt lawyers, other various weasels, etc. Unrealistic? Probably. So was the outcome of the Revolutionary War, but it happened. So are a lot of other things, and they happen. So I have hope.

We are all busy with our own affairs. So busy, we've let things get this bad. When I say "we", I mean "We, as a nation". I include our ancestors in that assessment. I have, in fact, noticed the correlation between free time and political activity.

I am well aware that people seem to dig the freebies that come with big government. It's frustrating, given that they don't seem to care HOW they get them, as long as they do. In cases like social security, of course they want that. They paid into it, and now they need that income. My grandfather hates that it was forced on him. At any rate, people want free stuff. Human nature. Problem is, though, it ain't free. Somebody is picking up the tab for it all. And, I believe that, given time, once all have been lulled into a false sense of security by all of these "perks", well, that's when we are no longer free men

So, maybe you are correct, Kreutz. But giving into that train of thought is f******g depressing. So, I'll continue to pray against it. I will continue to have hope. I will continue to advocate taking back our country. The one thing that is more depressing to me than being enslaved is the thought that my son may be. Call me naive, or whatever, but I refuse to give up hope.

History tells us people prefer bread and circuses to Liberty, and that governments tend to tryrrany, more a matter of when rather than if

SHMIV wrote:By "Take It Back", I mean from the professional politicians, corrupt lawyers, other various weasels, etc.

That'd be nice, but why did they get power in the first place? How? Whats to stop them from taking it back if they lost it?

And most importantly, how hard will they fight to keep it? I have a hunch a weasel lacks the conscience to care that it may come down to a 18 year old private making a cool 900 bucks a month shooting it out with an underemployed middle aged mechanic. Whatever it takes to maintain power will be used, be it bread, bribes or bullets.

Unrealistic? Probably. So was the outcome of the Revolutionary War, but it happened. So are a lot of other things, and they happen. So I have hope.

No disagreement there.

I am well aware that people seem to dig the freebies that come with big government. It's frustrating, given that they don't seem to care HOW they get them, as long as they do. In cases like social security, of course they want that. They paid into it, and now they need that income. My grandfather hates that it was forced on him. At any rate, people want free stuff. Human nature. Problem is, though, it ain't free. Somebody is picking up the tab for it all. And, I believe that, given time, once all have been lulled into a false sense of security by all of these "perks", well, that's when we are no longer free men

Perhaps many people place their level of freedom a bit lower on the priorities scale then you? Seriously man, I'm not joking, damned near everyone benefits from something Uncle Sam "gives" us. And it really wouldn't surprise me if they'd fight harder to keep their perks than to actually change anything and risk them.

Its not that I'm taking sides, just an observation.

So, maybe you are correct, Kreutz. But giving into that train of thought is f******g depressing. So, I'll continue to pray against it.

yeah, the realist outlook is definitely less fun than the romantic outlook. Its a buzzkill.

I will continue to have hope. I will continue to advocate taking back our country. The one thing that is more depressing to me than being enslaved is the thought that my son may be. Call me naive, or whatever, but I refuse to give up hope.

Hope is a bittersweet thing. Better than having nothing at all though.

This problem is stickier than it looks on the surface... and the surface doesn't look all that slick to begin with.

While I can in no way support the current administrator - there are certain candidates I simply could not vote for. The fact is, as some here have argued already - what difference does it make if the current admin continues or it is replaced by a clone? Not much.

SCOTUS? Yeah. Right. How, exactly, can we get a constitution supporting justice in the Supreme Court? It doesn't matter how conservative the President is - any nominee has to be confirmed by the Senate.

Folks - the office of the President isn't the problem. Much of the problem is the culture we've allowed to fester in D.C. - our nation's capital is a cesspool of power and privilege.

The other part of the problem is the top-down hierarchy of our political parties. We've allowed the "leadership" to dictate what we think instead of reigning them in when the need arises.

If it's not obvious now it should be shortly, but this next national election will not be the salvation of our nation, no matter how it turns out.

The only way to make a real difference is if WE the PEOPLE banded together and tossed all the bastards out. Not likely as it would take a massive grassroots effort in nearly every part of the country.

Even if such an effort was successful, we have another looming problem - debt.

Again and again I see what our nation has become and feelings of hopelessness well up from my belly. I despise pessimistic attitudes - especially my own - but I see no reasonable way out of this mess.

We cannot continue to try to spend our way out of trouble and we cannot stop the bleeding. If our country was a patient in the emergency room, by now we would have to admit the patient will bleed out and the only thing left to do is note the time of death.

Sorry for the bummer post but I'm tired to pretending there is some sort of solution.

Andy

seeknulfind wrote: SCOTUS? Yeah. Right. How, exactly, can we get a constitution supporting justice in the Supreme Court? It doesn't matter how conservative the President is - any nominee has to be confirmed by the Senate.

I would help a lot if the most conservative possible judge were appointed rather than the opposite. That might not make a huge difference immediately, but it is certainly preferable to conceding the game to the liberal socialists.

seeknulfind wrote: If it's not obvious now it should be shortly, but this next national election will not be the salvation of our nation, no matter how it turns out.

You are certainly correct that it will not be the salvation of our nation if the democrats lose the white house. But it will be it's damnation if they win. We are at a tipping point. One more ultra-liberal Supreme Court Justice and the 2nd Amendment is gone. And that will only be the first step. The point is not that we will win our way all the way back to salvation; the point is that we must avoid falling over the edge of the abyss whence we can never return.

seeknulfind wrote: Even if such an effort was successful, we have another looming problem - debt. Same thing applies to the debt.

We are also at a tipping point there. If we go much further, we can't get out. that's what the socialists want: A world where there's NO CHOICE but to let the government control all wealth and income so it can pay for itself.




Andy[/quote]

I'd vote for an empty orange juice can before re-electing Obama!

Hell the lid or the label would be fine too;; anything is an improvement..

Obama must go.
Bringing the country in the wrong direction.

He is under the illusion that the Executive Branch is all there is in this country.
By that I mean he thinks he should be given power to rule or overrule the Legislative and Judicial Branches to his liking.

This has been happening before he was in office.

USA is not Europe.

Unfortunately we do not have what we need for Republican candidate.

I find it amazing that our Government does not live/work by the Constitution, rather what ever it feels like at the moment or adjust to the crying weenies.

We are more concerned about being politically correct than doing what needs to be done.

At this point it seems we are rapidly becoming afraid of our own shadows and being more concerned with what others will think of us instead of staying true to ourselves.

If we do not fight for our rights, we can't complain when we lose them.

imo

A sad lesson a lot of us are painfully aware of a bit late..We are the ones, who, by are own laziness or apathy allowed a lot of this to happen..As long as things are relatively calm and not effecting us we ignored those in government and like the saying goes about the "Cat being away". Well our mice are doing a hell of a lot more than playing.. THese buttholes are serious and need to be removed from public service ASAP. They don;t serve anything but their goddamn parties goal of taking over the entire country and continuing to brainwash the hand out accepting morons that support them.. WE have to get off our asses and make the fix happen,,, No other way,,,Our work is cut out for us and we cannot afford to let PC or any other stupid Bull$hit get in our way,,,,,,,