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.................................davasmith wrote:I'd sneak in some cigarettes, wine and bread. Then I'd call all the big wigs together for a sit down. Then I'd hand out rations until all the hands were full. Then I'd grab my m-16 and shoot every last muslim. I'm just saying......
There would be several holes in your analogy and premise: Israael does not occupy the Palastinian territories, they put up fences and walls and clear buffer zone to prevent attack. They do nothing to prevent freedom of speech within the territories, that is done by Hamas and Hezbollah. As for the opportunity to boot out my oppressor, how many times would you attack somebody with rockets (usually launched from near a hospital or school)and kill 5 people, then have them turn around and kill 50 of your friends and family? Me, I think I'd learn real quick that is a losing proposition. I love my friends and family and don't wish to "Martyr" them. I think I would go with smuggling the food. If my "Oppressors" saw that I did not present a threat to them, they might not be so oppressive. But that is just my logic...jim100 wrote: Ahh but perhaps they are, would life be worth living if you are a slave? would we be happy here in America if martial law were declared? with no freedom of speech no right to keep arms, dependant on the Government for our every needs? now ask your self this if you had the opportunity to boot out your oppressors what would you do? would you sneak in food or the means to destroy your oppressor so you can grow your own without most of it being taken away?
Perhaps what i am trying to say is best expressed here http://www.ifamericansknew.org/media/sides.htmlgrumpyMSG wrote:There would be several holes in your analogy and premise: Israel does not occupy the Palestinian territories, they put up fences and walls and clear buffer zone to prevent attack. They do nothing to prevent freedom of speech within the territories, that is done by Hamas and Hezbollah. As for the opportunity to boot out my oppressor, how many times would you attack somebody with rockets (usually launched from near a hospital or school)and kill 5 people, then have them turn around and kill 50 of your friends and family? Me, I think I'd learn real quick that is a losing proposition. I love my friends and family and don't wish to "Martyr" them. I think I would go with smuggling the food. If my "Oppressors" saw that I did not present a threat to them, they might not be so oppressive. But that is just my logic...jim100 wrote: Ahh but perhaps they are, would life be worth living if you are a slave? would we be happy here in America if martial law were declared? with no freedom of speech no right to keep arms, dependant on the Government for our every needs? now ask your self this if you had the opportunity to boot out your oppressors what would you do? would you sneak in food or the means to destroy your oppressor so you can grow your own without most of it being taken away?
What are you implying here?jim100 wrote:grumpyMSG wrote: Ahh but perhaps they are, would life be worth living if you are a slave? would we be happy here in America if martial law were declared? with no freedom of speech no right to keep arms, dependant on the Government for our every needs? now ask your self this if you had the opportunity to boot out your oppressors what would you do? would you sneak in food or the means to destroy your oppressor so you can grow your own without most of it being taken away?
look, I dont want to sound like an adversary, BUT , you have to stop being a HATER, and embrace the multi-culturalism which is the new America. Please do your best to accept all of Allahs ' children and don't make any waves and keep your mouth shut and everything will be ok.Welcome to the new Amerika.davasmith wrote:I'd sneak in some cigarettes, wine and bread. Then I'd call all the big wigs together for a sit down. Then I'd hand out rations until all the hands were full. Then I'd grab my m-16 and shoot every last muslim. I'm just saying......
I don't know whether it was intentional or accidental, but you inverted my statement with jim100's. It should have said:GS78 wrote:What are you implying here?jim100 wrote:grumpyMSG wrote: Ahh but perhaps they are, would life be worth living if you are a slave? would we be happy here in America if martial law were declared? with no freedom of speech no right to keep arms, dependant on the Government for our every needs? now ask your self this if you had the opportunity to boot out your oppressors what would you do? would you sneak in food or the means to destroy your oppressor so you can grow your own without most of it being taken away?
I wouldn't be the correct person to respond to your question, because that was not my statement. I don't agree with jim100's position, but I respect it. I would agree that Israel is no angel, but the Palestinians have done things to contribute to their own plight. Here is an example of Israel being blamed for something that sounds ludicrous: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-11937285, You want to blame them for leveling houses to clear fields of fire, creating a no man's land, I can't argue with it at all. The mysterious chemical attacks mentioned in the article, sounds like a long stretch. In a chemical attack like that, the wind shifts and you are just as likely to cause casuaulties to your own civilian poputation. People being randomly shot, it's possible, but I would also say that it is also possible that it was being done by Palestinians, to Palestinians who were thought to be Israeli collaborators. Think about it, get rid of a rat and blame it on the "enemy", it's a two for one. What we need to understand is that their is propaganda being put out by both sides in the conflict, and both sides are enhancing it with some organic fertilzer (B.S.), if you want to accuse me of drinking the Israeli "Kool-Aid", I'd say it was just a sip or two.jim100 wrote:Perhaps what i am trying to say is best expressed here http://www.ifamericansknew.org/media/sides.htmlgrumpyMSG wrote:There would be several holes in your analogy and premise: Israel does not occupy the Palestinian territories, they put up fences and walls and clear buffer zone to prevent attack. They do nothing to prevent freedom of speech within the territories, that is done by Hamas and Hezbollah. As for the opportunity to boot out my oppressor, how many times would you attack somebody with rockets (usually launched from near a hospital or school)and kill 5 people, then have them turn around and kill 50 of your friends and family? Me, I think I'd learn real quick that is a losing proposition. I love my friends and family and don't wish to "Martyr" them. I think I would go with smuggling the food. If my "Oppressors" saw that I did not present a threat to them, they might not be so oppressive. But that is just my logic...jim100 wrote: Ahh but perhaps they are, would life be worth living if you are a slave? would we be happy here in America if martial law were declared? with no freedom of speech no right to keep arms, dependant on the Government for our every needs? now ask your self this if you had the opportunity to boot out your oppressors what would you do? would you sneak in food or the means to destroy your oppressor so you can grow your own without most of it being taken away?
That's not all that much different from how this country was founded.jim100 wrote:I can't disagree with your statement that both sides have lots of propaganda or that both sides have committed atrocities. However let us look at the facts. The reason that the middle east is in such turmoil is the fact that the Jews just kicked out the native inhabitants of the region after they had been there for 1000 years. Without payment, without so much as a "by your leave". than how did they do it you might ask? by subversive and murderous means often killing, deporting, stealing, and cheating the palestinians out of their land through the use of superior weapons supplied by the western allies after WW2.
That is why the Palestinians hate the Jews and why I think that the palestinians are in the right, the Palestinians have not taken the Jewish homeland which the Jews have lived in for a 1000+, the Jews have done this and by unethical and just plain wrong means.
What does this have to do with anything? Unless you assume that we are supporting Israel purely because they are "Jews" and we are "Christians" it's irrelevant. Most American's are not "Christians" anymore and most Israeli's are not "Jews" anymore. Most of each is secular.jim100 wrote:Just as a interesting side note guess which of the 2 main religions in the area think more highly of Christ.
(Hint its not Judaism)
The Talmud says Christ is suffering punishment in hell by sitting in cauldron of human excrement up to his shoulders.
The Koran says that Christ is a prophet of Allah.
Actions speak louder than works IMHO. While the Israeli's definitely are not our best friends, those "Jews" have killed far less American's than those "Muslims." (Since you think it is all about religion)jim100 wrote:Now before you say that I am a Muslim let me stop that course of thought. I am a follower of Christ pure and simple, nor am I propagating Islam. I am simply saying that of the two religions previously mentioned that the Koran is "friendlier" to Christians than the Talmud.
Violence our government and the UN helped create. Much like how the communist Chinese are a direct result of us selling them out to the Russians at the end of WW2.Kreutz wrote:I would like to see Israel prosper; but not on the course it has been on. Zionism is a poison and an evil one at that. Israel was founded on terrorism (Stern gang, Irgun, etc.) and it shouldn't be a surprise its a violent place to this day.
My statement was to the "God fearing gun toting redneck" Christian people on this gun forum that might say that the USA should support Israel because of the mistaken notion that the Jews are God's chosen people. nothing more nothing less.gunderwood wrote:What does this have to do with anything? Unless you assume that we are supporting Israel purely because they are "Jews" and we are "Christians" it's irrelevant. Most Americans are not "Christians" anymore and most Israeli's are not "Jews" anymore. Most of each is secular.jim100 wrote:Just as a interesting side note guess which of the 2 main religions in the area think more highly of Christ.
(Hint its not Judaism)
The Talmud says Christ is suffering punishment in hell by sitting in cauldron of human excrement up to his shoulders.
The Koran says that Christ is a prophet of Allah.
Actions speak louder than works IMHO. While the Israeli's definitely are not our best friends, those "Jews" have killed far less Americans than those "Muslims." (Since you think it is all about religion)Jim100 wrote:Now before you say that I am a Muslim let me stop that course of thought. I am a follower of Christ pure and simple, nor am I propagating Islam. I am simply saying that of the two religions previously mentioned that the Koran is "friendlier" to Christians than the Talmud.