ACLU wants to protect gun rights...

[gunderwood]

This is more a question about intent and I agree with the GOA position...this guy has been here for 30 years and he's not yet a citizen. Why not. if he wants to enjoy all of our rights and freedoms then he needs to join up and cut the apron strings across the pond...

Personally I have an issue with legal immigrants who stay here indefinitely without becoming a citizen. And, if there is a reason why he cannot become one then that raises even more questions...

This guy doesnt seem to fit the model of a lot I see though. Many legal (and illegal) immigrants come here clinging to their old way of life. They reside here but live as if they were still in their own country. If they want to do that why come here to begin with...

Hmm...while I understand the sentiment, still, what's the Constitutional basis for denying this guy that natural right?

The Constitution of the United States - Preamble - We the People of the United States...

Although it doesnt come right out and say it the inference is that the Constitution was written for "we the people" - that is citizens of the US.

So, here's the quandary. If the Constitution is there for everyone regardless of citizenship status then what about illegals? Are they too afforded due process under the rights of the Constitution. Ok then, why cant they buy guns legally?

Following this little rabbit trail they should be able to and any law saying they cant can then be argued as un-Constitutional.

We cant open up one little portion of the Constitution. If legal immigrants (non-citizens) are afforded protection under the Constitution then why arent illegals as well. The Constitution does not specify that you have to be here lawfully to be afforded protection nor does it say otherwise. If I'm wrong then someone please correct me. Btw, not sayin I support this. I kinda think the Constitution is for citizens...you want to enjoy the benefits then again - sign up.

IMHO the only reason illegals cant buy guns is due to a law that can most likely be successfully argued as un-Constitutional if there is a lawyer dumb enough to try.

The Constitution, thanks to the poorly written 14th Amendment, requires the Federal and State governments to provide all people, citizens, lawful residents, and even illegals due process. This is why we have deportation hearings at all. That lawsuit charging that illegals must receive government subsidized representation will likely get traction because of it too.

Turn it around. If I go to Europe and am charged with a crime there, I want the protection of their legal system. I don't want some citizen to be able to accuse me and I'm instantly guilty. Doesn't matter if I'm a lawful resident or just visiting. By being there legally a civil society affords me those protections. Now how long a non-immigrant resident should be allowed to stay, etc. are immigration questions. Now if I go "break into" their country I expect to be immediately deported. I broke the law getting in, why should I have any rights under their legal system.

The capitalization of the "People" in the version of the 2nd Amendment the States actually ratified may argue for the 2nd only applying to citizens.

[zephyp]

The Constitution, thanks to the poorly written 14th Amendment, requires the Federal and State governments to provide all people, citizens, lawful residents, and even illegals due process.

Amendment 14 - Citizenship Rights. Ratified 7/9/1868.
1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Due process of the law -- not the rights and protections of the Constitution...big difference...

[gunderwood]

The Constitution, thanks to the poorly written 14th Amendment, requires the Federal and State governments to provide all people, citizens, lawful residents, and even illegals due process.

Amendment 14 - Citizenship Rights. Ratified 7/9/1868.
1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Due process of the law -- not the rights and protections of the Constitution...big difference...

I understand that, but the Constitution claims to be the supreme law of the land. Unless you can show that "People" explicitly referenced in the 2nd Amendment only meant citizens (and the capitalization is the only argument I'm aware of), then it is the highest law and it forbids it. The government does ignore it when it pleases so it may not matter.