Virginia Gun Owners Forum - VGOF

I wouldn't be against teaching people some of the things I have learned over the last 20+ years of dealing with the AR family of weapons as an Infantryman, Armorer and occasionally competitive shooter, but I won't be able to do it until some time in August. I have commitments between now and then. I can bring a couple of different rifles and several different optics that people can try out, an Trijicon ACOG, Aimpoint Comp M4s, an Eotech 557 and a Leupold Mark 2 (3-9X40). Maybe it is something that could be planned for the next Shoot and Greet, wherever that may be...

Maybe somebody can help me install a shot group tightener on my Sig P220.

allingeneral wrote:

Mindflayer wrote:Maybe I should pay gunderwood and grumpy for a training session.

An AR-15 training session? I'm up for it We can go to the range near Fredericksburg (Northern Virginia Gun Club) and shoot'em up, then have a "How to maintain your AR-15" class and a good cleaning

How's next weekend (17 July) sound?

Missed your post in the stream! I think I am free that weekend. Did you see this as a group thing?

Here are two products AR guys might be interested in.

POF Roller Cam Pin: http://www.pof-usa.com/parts/arparts.htm

or

LWRC Advanced Cam Pin: http://www.lwrci.com/p-89-advanced-cam-pin.aspx

These are attempts to "fix" this issue:


I just tried to do that with mine and it wouldn't. However, my upper has a barrel attached to it so it should take more friction to stop it. He did it with the upper receiver only, which is very light. It wouldn't take much friction to bind that up. Also, I was able to get mine to drag a bit by pushing on the back of the bolt carrier while pushing on the bolt like he did in the video. Notice, he doesn't show what the other hand is doing. With enough pressure between the bolt carrier and bolt I'm sure you could get even the roller cam pin to bind.

The question is how much force does it take to strip a round from a full mag? This should affect DI and piston ARs. It definitely increases friction, but I don't think this is a huge issue. I'm thinking of adding the LWRC mod to mine. The POF is cool, but requires you replace the gas key (and re-stake it) because the roller cam pin can't rotate out of the way when you are disassembling the bolt carrier. Plus, it is $45 for the kit.

I should note that there is not agreement if cam pin gauging is an issue or not. Piston guns seem to make it worse. Also, messing with the cam pin can cause other issues.

Watch him move the bolt in and out of the carrier, it almost seems to move too freely. If I had to guess, that bolt has either very worn out gas rings or the rings have been removed. In a properly maintained D.I. type rifle, you should be able to stand the extended bolt carrier assembly on the bolt face and the carrier will not collapse. It is my understanding that some of the Piston type rifles don't even bother to install the rings. That would contribute to the rubbing on the upper reciever. I would think that you could use a scale of some sort to measure how much pressure it takes to strip a round out of a magazine and measure the force which the buffer spring pushes forward on the carrier and ensure it exceeds the stripping pressure.

I think it is a solution looking for a problem, the system has been in use for how many years and the problem/ solution is just being found/ fixed. One of the more common "problems/ complaints" Soldiers have with the M16/M4 families is the "Failure to Feed" and most of the time it comes from the use of blanks. The front of a blank round is crimped into a star shape and creates a a surface that catches where the barrel extension (steel) is located in the upper receiver (aluminum), over the years as all the bullets slide up the feed ramps into the barrel the aluminum will wear more quickly than the steel and the star shaped crimp will catch where the two come together. When you perform the immediate action drill the first step is slap up on the magazine and that usually knocks the round up and the bolt carrier slides it right into the chamber. A conventional round doesn't usually have that problem because of the shape of the bullet.
One of the biggest ways to improve the reliability of your AR is to spend the money on good magazines or fixing up the ones you have. I don't run Magpul PMAGs myself, but I know a boatload of people who sware by them. Magpul and C Products make replacement magazine followers that I encourage the use of, and at roughly $2 apiece, worth buying. If you are one of those people who have a pile of old used magazines laying around, take a moment to look at them, if they have black followers, you should plan on replacing them first. If they have a light green follower, you have the improved follower, they are better than the black follower, but I would replace them with the C Products or Magpuls when I could afford it. Another thing you should do is mark your magazines so that you can identify which magazine was in the rifle when it failed to feed properly, if it happens with the same magazine several times, it needs to be repaired or replaced.

I have several Magpuls for my AR and dont like them simply because they dont hit the ground when I press the mag release. I see that as a liability for what I consider to be a SHTF weapon...the good ole GI version are much better and more reliable...plus they are like old clothes...comfortable and familiar.

zephyp wrote:I have several Magpuls for my AR and dont like them simply because they dont hit the ground when I press the mag release. I see that as a liability for what I consider to be a SHTF weapon...the good ole GI version are much better and more reliable...plus they are like old clothes...comfortable and familiar.

I have no problems with my magpuls in the Ruger. I hit the button and they drop.

Unkn0wN wrote:

zephyp wrote:I have several Magpuls for my AR and dont like them simply because they dont hit the ground when I press the mag release. I see that as a liability for what I consider to be a SHTF weapon...the good ole GI version are much better and more reliable...plus they are like old clothes...comfortable and familiar.

I have no problems with my magpuls in the Ruger. I hit the button and they drop.

The GI mags are no problem but the Magpuls just sit there in my M-15. I was talking to one guy about it on a range and he said that they were designed that way based on requirements by spec ops...he said they didnt want them to hit the ground because that made noise. I just smiled and nodded. If I hit the mag release in the field its because I've been making lots of noise and am probably hoping to make more...

I had a CZ 9mm that did the same thing. Now thats one of the first things I check -- positive mag drop when you hit the button...

If I hit the mag release in the field its because I've been making lots of noise and am probably hoping to make more...

Lol, I think he assumes you have a Tacitcool "silencer" like on his Call of Duty!

Jakeiscrazy wrote:

If I hit the mag release in the field its because I've been making lots of noise and am probably hoping to make more...

Lol, I think he assumes you have a Tacitcool "silencer" like on his Call of Duty!

Actually I think it was merely a case of someone trying to sound smart and like they had done some really cool thing for Uncle. Maybe so but not in this line of work...