Virginia Gun Owners Forum - VGOF

gunderwood wrote:

zephyp wrote:

gunderwood wrote: Just to make it more plausible, while you have a lot of guns today, during a SHTF situation you likely will need to arm people you can trust (family, close neighbors, church members, etc.). Of course you have to train them too, but the more people, whom you can trust, that you arm and train the better off you likely will be for defensive action. However, if things continue to degrade--guns get lost and people die during firefights, ammo drys up for less common calibers, etc.--you may only have one gun. What is the one gun you keep for yourself?

And one of the primary reasons I keep a couple extra in the safe with mags and ammo. Every one of us living in built up areas should be thinking this way. Who can you recruit to build a local "defense force"...

The Zephyp Millitia Defense Force sounds like a bunch of extremists...

arkypete wrote:My take on the auto vs revolver in a survivialist circumstance is the firearms that scatter brass all over the country side should be avoided. Brass will be very dear and resupply will be iffy.

Jim

NickW wrote:

CowboyT wrote:That kind of load versatility is hard to get in a semi-auto due to the action of the slide.

Well, if you take a good look at the 10mm Auto I think you would have to agree that it's power matches-up well with the .357. 10mm is handloaders dream round IMO.

zephyp wrote:

gunderwood wrote: The Zephyp Millitia Defense Force sounds like a bunch of extremists...

Indeed...extremely interested in protecting our stuff...in case extremely interested people try to take it...

CowboyT wrote:

zephyp wrote:

gunderwood wrote: The Zephyp Millitia Defense Force sounds like a bunch of extremists...

Indeed...extremely interested in protecting our stuff...in case extremely interested people try to take it...

You mean like your junk?

arkypete wrote:I plan to be Invisiable, I want to expend my cartridges on critters, not people

arkypete wrote:I don't think there's going to be much in the way of roving bands looking to do un-nice things, where I will need to expend volumns of ammo. That would really tick me off to have a gun fight, loose some of my brass then have to bury or drag of the carcasses.

CowboyT wrote:I agree with you if you're talking about a 10mm revolver, so that you can down-load the round if you need to. It's a mighty fine round.

gunderwood wrote:Of course it also matters where you live. A lot of us, myself included, live close to NOVA or in it. That's a problem for SHTF. However, living in the country will buy you some breathing space, but at some point whomever survives the city is going to move out to the country because food doesn't grow on asphalt.

CCFan wrote:

gunderwood wrote:Of course it also matters where you live. A lot of us, myself included, live close to NOVA or in it. That's a problem for SHTF. However, living in the country will buy you some breathing space, but at some point whomever survives the city is going to move out to the country because food doesn't grow on asphalt.

I'm blessed to live in a region where I get out to the country on a regular basis, and could gab the bug out bag and walk if need be...If you have a good SHTF plan, you'll know where you're headed, and you'll know the territory better than the folks who "move out to the country" so I'm not worried about that as much. They make lots of noise, and they don't blend in well...

gunderwood wrote:That's a problem for SHTF. However, living in the country will buy you some breathing space, but at some point whomever survives the city is going to move out to the country because food doesn't grow on asphalt.

t33j wrote:I don't have a rifle so I'd pick 9mm. If I did, probably 5.56.

I can lug around more ammo with the same space (or more importantly - weight) constraint.
Widely available.
SD is the primary POU I have in mind

t33j wrote:Certain things dictate that I wouldn't survive a real SHTF scenario more than about 3-4 months so I'm not too worried about the interesting long term stuff that many bring up in this thread. My county while definitely suburban happens to be fairly well armed so I hope I'd not have to bug out. I know more than a few very well armed folks I can trust... maybe we could secure a neighborhood.

Palladin wrote:

gunderwood wrote:That's a problem for SHTF. However, living in the country will buy you some breathing space, but at some point whomever survives the city is going to move out to the country because food doesn't grow on asphalt.

YA HEAR THAT DK?! Now who's laughing at my apple orchard?! If I catch you in it I'll dust yore bottom w/ rock salt!


Just kidding...

PART III

GUNS, AMMO AND OTHER GEAR

After TSHTF in 2001, only the most narrow minded, brain washed, butterfly IQ level idiots believed that the police would protect them from the crime wave that followed the collapse of our economy. A lot of people that could have been considered antigun before, ran to the gun shops, seeking advice on how to defend themselves and their families. They would buy a 38 revolver, a box of ammo, and leave it in the closet, probably believing that it would magically protect them from intruders.
Oh, maybe you don’t think that firearms are really necessary or your beliefs do not allow you to buy a tool designed to kill people. So you probably ask yourself, is a gun really necessary when TSHTF? Will it truly make a difference? Having gone through a SHTF scenario myself, total economical collapse in the year 2001, and still dealing with the consequences, 5 years later, I feel I can answer that question. YES, you need a gun, pepper spray, a machete, a battle axe, club with a rusty nail sticking out of it, or whatever weapon you can get hold of.
A LOT has been written on survival weapons. Everyone that is into armed survival has his or her own idea of the ideal gun battery. Some more oriented to a hunting point of view, others only as self defense means and others consider a little of both, and look for general purpose weapons. Talking about guns, there is one special subject I want to rectify, and it’s the point on what’s the primary weapon for the survivalist, specially an urban survivalist that has to function in a society, yes, even after the SHTF. The primary defensive weapon for the survivalist is his HANDGUN. It’s the weapon that stays with him when he is doing his business around town of working on the field. The survivalist IS NOT a soldier, even though you are a soldier or you once were the meanest mother on the battle filed, your home town is not a battlefield and it wont be, even if the SHTF. A LOT of water has to go under the bridge until the situation gets to a point where you can calmly walk down the street with a rifle on your shoulder. People, if you are interested in real world SHTF situation and you want to prepare for the real deal, then understand that this isn’t black or white. You wake up one day and listen on the radio that the economy collapsed and that the stock market closed indefinitely. What do you do? You still have to go to the office/work/whatever .Kiss the wife good bye and walk to the office with your AR across your back, or across your chest, Israeli style, and ready to shoot? You won’t get far. Someone will shoot you or throw you in jail, or in a mental institution.
What I’m trying to explain, is that it’s ok to prepare for China invading you country, Germans and UN or Martians. That is the extreme, less likely worst case scenario.
There is an infinity spectrum of gray between the black and white. White being your average normal day and black being total TEOTWAWKI, lizard men invading the planet.
Rifles do have a place in the survivalist’s arsenal, and a very important one. But you have to understand that 90% of the time, the handgun will be the weapon you have available when you need one. You can’t compare to a trooper in Iraq that has his weapon with him at all times. I ask you how many soldiers do you know that keep wearing camo and totting their M4s around town when they return home?
What works for war does not work for the survivalist, especially the urban survivalist.
Even if you live in a retreat far from town, you have to work, don’t you? Or do you have employees that take care of all your mundane tasks, leaving you all day to keep watch with your rifle ready? A soldier is part of a huge machine; HIS job is to carry that rifle, while others take care of other needs. A survivalist, one that is not part of a large survivalist group, has no one to cover for him. When a new guy looks for advice on what to get for defense, some will recommend a rifle or shotgun as a first defensive weapon.
Let’s say race riots start in this guy’s city. He still has to go to work every day. What is he supposed to do? Shove his pump shotgun in his pocket? A handgun, even though less powerful, can be used for home defense AND go with you wherever you need to go. If the place floods, he can still hop into an evacuation boat without leaving his weapon behind. I’m sure no rescue team will pick you if you are carrying a long arm. They’ll ask you to leave it behind for sure. What if your government, realizing that TSHTF and that they lost control of the events, bans all firearms indefinitely? Don’t know about you, but if things are that bad, I’d like to be armed. You can hide a handgun under a jacket. You can’t hide a long arm under your clothes.
I think it was Clint Smith who said that the handgun is only used to fight his way to his rifle. Man! That sounds “macho”. I’d love to see him walking into Wal-Mart with his tactical M4, taking the subway, visiting the doctor or going to the bank. “Over here Mr. Smith, you can hang you M4 right next to my coat” I don’t think so. Guys, unless you have your own shooting school, you do not get to carry your rifle to work.
OK, now that I got that out of my chest lets look at some options.

arkypete wrote:As I said above, I've been around the block a few times and have see the birth, death and re-birth of the survivialist movement and mind set, several times.
I got excited the first time, because it was new. The second time I nearly over looked it.
The third and possibily the fourth time I didn't know I was supposed to prepare for the Apocalypse and totally failed to recognise the the end of the danger.

Jim