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Re: SBRing a Sig P522, FNG questions

Posted: Thu, 07 Oct 2010 08:55:24
by gunderwood
How about even Congress complaining that they are making up laws contrary to what the US code says?
January 10, 1995

Mr. John W. Magaw, Director
Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms
Department of the Treasury
650 Massachusetts Ave., N.W.
Washington, D.C. 20226

Dear Mr. Magaw:

We have been informed that BATF is enforcing the provisions of the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994 ("the Act") concerning firearms magazines with an interpretation contrary to the language of the Act. We strongly object to the Bureau's apparent efforts to circumvent the will of Congress in this matter.

The Act amended 18 U.S.C. Sec. 922 by adding a new subsection (w) to prohibit the transfer or possession of certain firearms magazines categorized as "large capacity ammunition feeding devices" -- by definition, those manufactured after the date of enactment, September 13, 1994.

Since the date of enactment of the Act, BATF has refused to allow the importation of any magazines having a capacity of more than ten rounds, regardless of the date of manufacture. Unofficially BATF professes to be still "studying" this issue, and has made no formal announcement of its policy. However, recent shipments of such magazines manufactured before the date of enactment have been impounded by U.S.Customs, acting on instructions from BATF.

The term "large capacity ammunition feeding device" is a new term of art introduced by the Act. An addition to 18 U.S.C. Sec. 921(a) --the "Definitions" section of the Gun Control Act-- specified what this term of art means. Paragraph (31) now provides:

"The term large capacity feeding device'_

(A) means a magazine, belt, drum, feed strip or similar device manufactured after the date of enactment of the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994 that has a capacity of, or that can be readily restored or converted to accept, more than 10 rounds of ammunition, but

(B) does not include an attached tubular device designed to accept, and capable of operating only with, .22 caliber rimfire ammunition."

It is an elementary rule of statutory construction that where a limitation is expressed in the definition of a term of art, such limitation is implicit in every provision to which the term of art applies. In each instance that the phrase "large capacity ammunition feeding device" appears in the Act, it can refer only to a device manufactured after September, 13, 1994. Thus the prohibition on transfer or possession contained in sec, 922(w)(1) does not encompass any magazines manufactured before that date, regardless of where it was made or where it currently reposes. Therefore, BATF has no
authority to deny its importation.

It has been suggested that this interpretation might require the Act to be given extraterritorial effect. That is patently incorrect. Such a view erroneously focuses on sec. 922(w)(2), a "grandfather" clause which exempts from the prohibition any magazine "otherwise lawfully possessed" prior to the effective date of the Act.

However, it is the definition quoted above which controls the scope of the prohibition in the first place --not this exemption. Obviously Congress has no jurisdiction to prohibit (or exempt) the transfer or possession of any magazine by non-Americans outside the United States --but that does not prevent Congress from limiting the meaning of "large capacity ammunition feeding device" according to any criteria it chooses to use.

In specifically limiting the prohibited magazines to those made after September 13,1994, Congress has followed much the same course as with the firearms themselves. In 1968, Congress defined "firearm" as a term of art to encompass only those manufactured after 1898. Those made before simply are not covered by the Act. In 26 years no one has ever
suggested that this definition did not apply to any firearm in the world, or that BATF had any statutory authority to deny the importation of one manufactured before 1898.

We are aware that concerns have been expressed that, with respect to imported magazines, certain difficulties may arise in administering the law. However, that is much more the case with respect to domestically-made magazines. Before final passage the Act was deliberately amended to include unprecedented safeguards regarding the burden of proof (indeed, even a presumption of exclusion from the Act) and other provisions to protect the citizenry from overzealous BATF enforcement. Under these circumstances it would be very disturbing if BATF refused to accept the statute as written.

While BATF can ask Congress to change the law, it has no authority to unilaterally amend it with an interpretation inconsistent with its plain language. The Supreme Court, in Chevron U.S.A., Inc. v. Natural Resources Defense Council, Inc., 467 U.S.837 (1984), set forth a two-step process for judicial review of an agency's interpretation of a statute:

First, "is the question of whether Congress has directly spoken to the precise question at issue. If the intent of Congress is clear, that is the end of the matter."1 Second, where "the statute is silent or ambiguous with respect to the specific issue, the question for the court is whether the agency's answer is based on a permissible construction of the stature."2

An application of the Chevron two-step analysis to the situation at hand, renders it unnecessary to reach the second step. Congress has spoken directly to the issue of exactly what criteria must be met to bring a magazine under the jurisdiction of the magazine provisions in the Act.

As stated above, the definition of a large capacity ammunition feeding device' requires that the magazine must have been "manufactured after the date of enactment" of the Act before it can be brought under the influence of the Act. Therefore magazines manufactured within, or outside of, the boundaries of the U.S. before September 13, 1994, do not meet the statutory definition of a 'large capacity ammunition feeding device'.

A review of the second step of the Chevron test only serves to further substantiate the result reached above in the first step. If the agency attempts to interpret the statute such that high-capacity magazines must not only have been manufactured, but also imported on or before the date of enactment of the Act, it is clear that such a result would not be "based on a permissible construction of the statute."

Although agencies have substantial discretion in their executive role of implementators and interpreters of the law, they may not reinvent that which Congress has already made clear in its
legislative role as architects of the law.

Accordingly, we would like to be informed immediately of BATF's official position on this issue. Furthermore, if your agency proposes to deny importation of pre-enactment magazines, I would like a detailed explanation regarding the precise legal grounds upon which such action is justified.

We would like your response within 10 days of receipt of this letter.

Sincerely,

(Letter signed by Senators Orrin Hatch, Howell Heflin and Larry Craig)


1.Chevron, 467 U.S. U.S. At 842

2. Id.

Re: SBRing a Sig P522, FNG questions

Posted: Thu, 07 Oct 2010 09:00:31
by gunderwood
I could go on and on, but the point is made.

Re: SBRing a Sig P522, FNG questions

Posted: Fri, 08 Oct 2010 01:01:19
by Diomed
gunderwood wrote:So now you are changing the argument. I never said specifically what "law" they could change or that they were changing the actual US code.
No, you're arguing about undefined hypotheticals, I was discussing actualities. I do not know why you need to turn this into some kind of grand argument; I do not care for I want no part of it. If you wish to mount a soapbox, good for you. I am not needed for that as strawmen work better.

You will not change my mind or experiences, and I care not whether you change yours.

Re: SBRing a Sig P522, FNG questions

Posted: Fri, 08 Oct 2010 05:24:36
by zephyp
pig...eagle...pig...eagle...pig... :clap:

Re: SBRing a Sig P522, FNG questions

Posted: Fri, 08 Oct 2010 06:22:09
by gunderwood
Diomed wrote:
gunderwood wrote:So now you are changing the argument. I never said specifically what "law" they could change or that they were changing the actual US code.
No, you're arguing about undefined hypotheticals, I was discussing actualities. I do not know why you need to turn this into some kind of grand argument; I do not care for I want no part of it. If you wish to mount a soapbox, good for you. I am not needed for that as strawmen work better.

You will not change my mind or experiences, and I care not whether you change yours.
You sound like a BATFE apologist. Do you work for or with them? I can't predict what the BATFE will do next, they don't work for me. Historically, they have found all the wiggle room and plenty of illegal room (directly violating the law) to screw people over.

The question at hand wasn't a hypothetical. The law does not say you can not put a vertical grip on a pistol. The entire thing is nothing more than BATFE trying to reinterpret the definitions so they have more power. The courts were about to uphold that interpretation (pistols are allowed VG), so the BATFE got mad and took their toys home. To this day they still hold to their fairy tail that a pistol can't have a vertical grip and through their actions have purposefully put the American people in a legal gray area. Thanks to the specific actions of the BATFE, someone is eventually going to go to jail over a technicality. That is the BATFEs modulus operandi, rule by fear.

Beyond that, all I have pointed out is that when ever you are "regulated" by the BATFE you are playing with fire. I can't tell you exactly what they will do next, but they have a long (decades) and checkered history of power expansion at the expense of the American people. Just look at how the BATFE is handling those 10th Amendment Acts some states have past. Instead of handling it like a like big boys, they have threatened anyone with lose of their FFL and long jail terms. Wait! I thought the BATFE couldn't do that stuff! They have guns and are willing to use them against the people and the States, watch them ignore the law. Nothing new here.

Yes, because federal agents purposefully lying under oath to get a conviction is a strawman.
Your way off base here. All I've said is that given the historical actions of the BATFE, up to and including recent behavior in the last couple of years, there is no reason to expect anything less. How will they do it? I don't know, I leave that to the creativity of those jack booted thugs.

It amazes me that you are not even the slightest bit offended at the BATFEs illegal actions. How do you expect justice to be severed when the federal agency attacking you has a long history of lying under oath and other illegal, above the law behavior? The corruption at there was so bad they put it into a training video! It is like the politicians, they actually believe this stuff is ok because everyone is doing it! How many ATF agents are wasting away in jail for that? AFAIK, none. They were given a slap on the wrist because they are above the law.

Re: SBRing a Sig P522, FNG questions

Posted: Fri, 08 Oct 2010 06:31:35
by gunderwood
They came first for the Militias,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Militia member.

Then they came for the FFLs,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a FFL.

Then they came for those who spoke against their tyranny,
and I didn't speak up because I was a true believer.

Then they came for me
and by that time no one was left to speak up.

--Diomed - 20XX

Re: SBRing a Sig P522, FNG questions

Posted: Fri, 08 Oct 2010 07:11:44
by zephyp
gunderwood wrote:
They came first for the Militias,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Militia member.

Then they came for the FFLs,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a FFL.

Then they came for those who spoke against their tyranny,
and I didn't speak up because I was a true believer.

Then they came for me
and by that time no one was left to speak up.

--Diomed - 20XX
:thumbsup: