Virginia Gun Owners Forum - VGOF

What are the requirements are for a CAP (Concealed Ax Permit) in VA?

I think you just have to pinky swear that you're not an ax muderer, and not mind looking like you have teh ghey. Apparently from the picture, you must also have really good hair, and at least 1 flannel shirt.

Mindflayer wrote:I say this with all seriousness - there are people out there I do not trust with garden tools around me. That said, they have a right to buy them, and I have a right to tell them, "Hey, man, you don't swing a pickaxe like a baseball bat."

As far as I can remember, lawn mowers always had those "safety warning" stickers telling you not to stick your hand or leg into the whirling blades of death. Seriously, if people old enough to read the warning need direction to know that they shouldn't stick limbs into a mowers blades...

The problem is that when the state sets "training" limits for anything, that becomes the lowest common denominator. The generalized argument is that by setting standards you are creating the impression that those standards are sufficient, which in some cases they are not. E.g. speed limits. How many idiots do you see doing the speed limit when conditions clearly do not allow any automobile to safely drive that fast? By setting them we have done three negative things:

1. We have created the impression that speed limits determine the acceptable speed an automobile can travel rather than the driver. Don't believe me? Ask a random driver what the safe speed on any give road is and I bet you 8-9 times out of ten their answer involves the speed limit and ignores their cars condition, road/weather conditions, drivers skill, etc.

2. By setting a speed limit you have created the impression from #1, people never learn how to read the road. They never learn how to determine at what speed their car is about to hydroplane or how fast is safe for a turn on a back road, etc. Their primary skill is learning to stay around the speed limit and because of #1, they never develop other drivings skills. This is very obvious with controlling a car that is sliding. Every driving book tells you to turn into the skid and NOT to slam on the brakes, but what do 90+% of people do the first time their car slides? Slam on the brakes. You don't learn these things from a book or instruction, you need time behind the wheel and you need to practice. Everything else is theory and most people panic/freeze when the time to apply the knowledge is required.

3. Since speed limits are generally set for the lowest common denominator, they generally are too low for most automobiles. Thus, since on average it takes no skill or attention to pilot the average automobile down the road, people get bored. They turn on the radio, talk on cell phones, text, etc. Generally, they don't pay attention to driving because 99.9999% of the time there is nothing worth paying attention to. With out speed limits, people now drive their automobiles at faster speeds, but more attention is required. Case in point, you are twice as likely to die on an American interstate than the Autobahn after correcting for statistical usage. The accident rate is far higher on American interstates as we have many more minor crashes, while when you have crashes on the Autobahn they are more likely to involve fatalities. Even given that, you are still more likely to die here than there because most people on our highways aren't paying attention. Think about it...how many people do you think are texting at 120MPH?

You see this pattern where ever the state tries to take the decision making responsibility away from the people. While there are always stupid people, by setting standards you are ensuring that the lowest common denominator becomes the norm. You can't just eliminate the speed limit overnight because whole generations of American's have never learned how to drive an automobile. All they know is how to operate one and the two are vastly different.

Edit: Firearms are very similar, but you also have whole generations who believed the government/anti-gunners propaganda that guns are bad and never bothered to learn anything about it. The way our society is structured, it forces most people to learn something about automobiles...not much mind you.

chfaunce wrote:I think you just have to pinky swear that you're not an ax muderer, and not mind looking like you have teh ghey. Apparently from the picture, you must also have really good hair, and at least 1 flannel shirt.

Meh, that is marketings attempt to metro-sexualize everything. Social engineering looks down upon men who are men and aren't over grown children. Those kind of tough men are hard to control...

chfaunce wrote:I think you just have to pinky swear that you're not an ax muderer, and not mind looking like you have teh ghey. Apparently from the picture, you must also have really good hair, and at least 1 flannel shirt.

A mullet would be a plus, although not required. However, you must drive a Gen II Camaro

chfaunce wrote:I certainly would not trust some people with garden tools:



I know, I know... fashion axes. WTF. No, seriously, WTF?!

What on God's green earth is that?

I mean, it's obviously a 'mo with an axe, but why?

Speaking of constitutional carry / permit-free concealed carry, what's the over-under on this being enacted in the Commonwealth over the next few years? Any ideas?

ainokea wrote:Speaking of constitutional carry / permit-free concealed carry, what's the over-under on this being enacted in the Commonwealth over the next few years? Any ideas?

Uh, I wouldn't put any money on it happening, let's just put it that way...

ainokea wrote:

chfaunce wrote:
Speaking of constitutional carry / permit-free concealed carry, what's the over-under on this being enacted in the Commonwealth over the next few years? Any ideas?

I'll take "no f*** way" for $1000

gunderwood wrote:

chfaunce wrote:I think you just have to pinky swear that you're not an ax muderer, and not mind looking like you have teh ghey. Apparently from the picture, you must also have really good hair, and at least 1 flannel shirt.

Meh, that is marketings attempt to metro-sexualize everything. Social engineering looks down upon men who are men and aren't over grown children. Those kind of tough men are hard to control...

Hey now, I carry a manbag on occasion. Then again, I'm part Asian, so it's allowed - you know, for my cameras and stuff.

gunderwood wrote:1. We have created the impression that speed limits determine the acceptable speed an automobile can travel rather than the driver. Don't believe me? Ask a random driver what the safe speed on any give road is and I bet you 8-9 times out of ten their answer involves the speed limit and ignores their cars condition, road/weather conditions, drivers skill, etc.

Sorry for the derail, but this annoys me. I was driving through a winter storm a few years ago in my Subaru (the beauty of all wheel drive), well past the people doing 15MPH. A police officer roars up on me, lights blazing, so I slowly pull over to a stop. He walks up to my door and demands to know why I failed to pull over immediately. I mention the road conditions won't allow that. He grunts, makes me get out of the car to stand in the snow and ice with no jacket while he goes to run my license. He comes back after what seemed a freezing eternity and asks me if I knew how fast I was going. I tell him, and he says that was unsafe for the conditions.

I really, really wanted to ask him why he thought roaring up to catch me was a good idea, but I bit my tongue and told him I know how to drive in snow and ice since I learned to drive in Germany and WV. I also remark that's another reason I love my Subaru. He let's me off with a warning that it's his "discretion" whether or not I am driving safely. Really? I was under the speed limit, I was nowhere near anyone else, and he's the one that was flying down the road - and I am sure he scared the folks doing 15-20 while he did it.

So to your point, yeah, people should know the limits of their car. Yes, you get people who don't that drive 100 MPH on I-68 and endanger the rest of us. But that's no reason for a cop to pull me over to tell me I'm driving too fast when I know WTF I am doing.

Mindflayer wrote:
Hey now, I carry a manbag on occasion. Then again, I'm part Asian, so it's allowed - you know, for my cameras and stuff.


Sorry for the derail, but this annoys me. I was driving through a winter storm a few years ago in my Subaru (the beauty of all wheel drive), well past the people doing 15MPH.

Are manbags allowable? That's questionable. Should you be carrying one? No. I'll issue you a warning this once, but if you admit to carrying a 'murse' again, we'll have to pull your man card.

Oh, I have a Subaru, too. They're great cars. They're also susceptible to sliding like any other vehicle in snow and ice, even with snow tires (unless you're running Green Diamonds or something). (Ever wonder why so many 4WD SUV's end up in a ditch, or spun around off the side of the road when it snows?). So, sure, they have the get up and go to pass the others creeping along at 15 mph, but if one of those morons that doesn't know what they're doing does something stupid in front of you... So, while I see the irony of the cop's accusation, he may have also had a valid point. When it's crappy out around here, I worry more about others around me and the condition of their vehicles (especially tires!) more than my car's ability or my driving ability.

All wheel drive is great, but four times zero is still zero.

Ah, I understand that with re: to the tires. I love passing the idiots sitting in the ditch. I was on 15 headed into the PRM when a guy in a Toyato 4 Runner decides that he wants to be in my land RIGHT EFFING NOW and yanks in front of me, sees I am there, jerks the wheel back. I had to adjust so went flying across the road. Luckily I didn't hit anyone or total my car. That is why I drive to get past everyone. I can then move at my own speed at my own comfort level.

I-64 east of Richmond back in that huge ice storm, I was the slow driver in my Subaru. Trees were coming down left and right, and a string of 4x4s goes flying by screaming profanities at me for going so slow. Less than half a mile down the road they were ALL in a ditch.

I don't know, I think my bag is just fine. I don't do the clutch thing. Hmm, I do wonder, though, why black guys can get away with the clutch and Asians get away with the camera bag?

Mindflayer wrote:Ah, I understand that with re: to the tires.


I don't know, I think my bag is just fine. I don't do the clutch thing. Hmm, I do wonder, though, why black guys can get away with the clutch and Asians get away with the camera bag?

Yep. Now that I have a garage, if I ever have the spare disposable coin saved, I'll probably invest in a spare set of wheels with some dedicated snow tires - not that you really need them around here. But, a set of Blizzaks or Green Diamonds would be awesome. Just because.

That's not really a murse. You're ok with that, I think - it's closer to a backpack. Not quite as uber cool as messenger bag ( ), though. But, hopefully you're not carrying anything other than a point & shoot. I have dedicated camera bags for my SLRs. I don't know any black men (or any men, for that matter) that carry clutches. The only time I've ever seen a man carrying a clutch was while helping his wife or girlfriend carrying her purchases out of the Coach store. I'm starting to question what kind of people you hang out with.

Well, I saw this guy carrying one in Best Buy (IIRC) a couple of weeks ago. Very often it's a daytimer looking thing with a strap, so it looks like a clutch.

I carry my DSLRs in a backpack that screams, "I GOTS CAMERA GEAR IN HERE!" which is another reason I need to get a good trail holster.

Mindflayer wrote:Well, I saw this guy carrying one in Best Buy (IIRC) a couple of weeks ago. Very often it's a daytimer looking thing with a strap, so it looks like a clutch.

I carry my DSLRs in a backpack that screams, "I GOTS CAMERA GEAR IN HERE!" which is another reason I need to get a good trail holster.

I'd cut him a break. Life's gotta be bad enough as it is playing for the Redskins. I'd say it could only be worse if he played for the Lions, but wait, didn't they beat us, too?

I'm with ya', though. My Lowepro bag doesn't really jump out, but it doesn't scream CamelBak either. The monopod, sure - but I wouldn't be scared of clubbing someone with that in a pinch. And, I always carry when the wife and I go on our more remote shoots. Definitely !

gunderwood wrote: As far as I can remember, lawn mowers always had those "safety warning" stickers telling you not to stick your hand or leg into the whirling blades of death. Seriously, if people old enough to read the warning need direction to know that they shouldn't stick limbs into a mowers blades...

Thats because you're not old enough to remember when the only place you saw a warning "sticker" was at the local power sub-station or the fence around the Army base.

As a side note, I bought a fan a couple years ago and it no kidding had a warning sticker on the front grill "Warning do not stick tongue in moving blades." Why, because some moron had no doubt done just that and then sought recourse from the manufacturer.

On a brighter note, allowing government to regulate virtually every facet of our lives has created millions of jobs and lottery wins for creatures like that water buffalo who spilled "I didnt know it was hot" coffee in her lap at the MacD's drive through or the guy who successfully sued Sears after he had a heart attack supposedly caused by pulling the "I dint know it was that hard to do" lanyard on a lawn mower.

IMHO opinion we either go for Constitutional carry or allow ourselves to be inundated with countless stupid laws governing our acquisition, possession, and use of firearms.