Virginia Gun Owners Forum - VGOF

The only common sense answer to me is: He with no money?

ps. I have taken a deer (doe) at 100 yards with a marlin .22lr with one shot through the heart. My brother in law who is a marine and worked for Blackwater as a contaractor was with me to testify. This was done in OK back in 2002, we were desperate and the marlin was all I had with me. Josh

davasmith wrote:The only common sense answer to me is: He with no money?

Best answer ever?

davasmith wrote:ps. I have taken a deer (doe) at 100 yards with a marlin .22lr with one shot through the heart. My brother in law who is a marine and worked for Blackwater as a contaractor was with me to testify. This was done in OK back in 2002, we were desperate and the marlin was all I had with me. Josh

Nice. Usually they go for short range head shots with .22lr where it is legal.

Yes, I know but as I stated we were desperate. Legal? don't know it was a friends property. It was good eating though!

Well, we all have our stories... then there is the one about the Indian mother who was out picking berries with her little "papoose" on her back and was confronted by a rather large Brown bear... upwards of 1000lbs.... all she had was a little .22 rifle... she shot quickly and hit the bear right through the eye... killed him deader than 6 o'clock... certainly luck but sometimes luck is all you have... but I will say again and I stand by this statement regardless of all the great hunting stories... deer size game should be hunted with adequate firearms and a .357, particularly in a short barrel piston... and although quite powerful is just not a realistic hunting arm... and that is a fact... I will tell you that I happen to have taken several nice whitetails with a .357 Herrett... do you know what that is??? It had a 14" barrel with a 2 1/2 Redfield extended eye relief... you have to form the brass and hand load the cartridge but it was a good deer pistol... In fact, I sold that gun two weeks ago at a gun show in Richmond... that and a .30/.30 TC with a 10" barrel and a 2 1/2 Redfield... another deer pistol... those were both pistols in the .30 and .35 caliber range that could take deer but the .357 in a 4" revolver is not in that league... you can certainly kill a deer with a .357 but I dare say there are not too many that have done it.... that is only my opinion, but I will stick to it.

I am fairly certain there will be a few of you that will come on here now and tell me some great stories.... I chuckle at the thought... ok guys... go to it... ... and besides, this sort of got off the original subject, but it was fun!!

speezack wrote:deer size game should be hunted with adequate firearms and a .357, particularly in a short barrel piston... and although quite powerful is just not a realistic hunting arm... and that is a fact...

By what metric?

A short barrel SD gun isn't a hunting .357Mag. 6"+ is a common barrel length for that application or course it is usually loaded to the max. I replied because I was curious by what standard you were using to make such a definitive statement.

The popular OGW formula calculated here (rifle velocities or very high pressure/long handgun velocities: http://www.chuckhawks.com/game_range_caliber.htm) says 10 yards for 200lbs game (not many deer around here that big) and 110 yards for 100lbs deer.

Hornady's HITs formula says small game out to 100+ yards (<50lbs) http://www.hornady.com/store/357-Mag-158-gr-XTP/

The problem is that most .357Mag is loaded pretty low. If you go for a heavy load like this (http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l= ... tail&p=100) you get a hits of just over 500 for short range (<25-50 yards). The OGW says max range is around the same 25-50 yards give or take.

The reason it isn't so common anymore is that fewer people are hunting and of those even fewer are handgun hunting.
http://www.castbullet.com/hunting/th.htm

You make it sound so definitive and I'm curious why?

gunderwood wrote:You make it sound so definitive and I'm curious why?

It is my opinion, based on 40 years of hunting everything from squirrels to elk, including black bear, in most of this country, with weapons ranging from compound bows to 7mm Mag. It is simply my personal opinion and in that capacity I can be definitive in my answer. I have also done a fair amount of deer hunting with pistols, ranging from... yes, .357 however in an 8" barrel length and under 35 yds. with custom loads and up to .44 mag in 8" barrel length. Although the .357 certainly has enough power to take down a deer... given your ballistics and data, it is still not a wise choice. Everyone has an opinion, this is mine and it is based on personal experience and much observation, not hearsay. If a person wants to use a .22 caliber weapon to Brown bear hunt that is certainly their prerogative, although it would probably not be extremely wise to do so and I would give like advise.

Opinions and advice are like the proverbial bodily orifice, most of us have one and each is slightly different. I am new to this site but not to firearms or hunting. If someone asks for advice on a subject that I am familiar with, I will give it. Whether they like it or not, is certainly up to them.

... didn't mean to come on too strong with my last post/answer... just trying to be 'definitive'.

speezack wrote:I have also done a fair amount of deer hunting with pistols, ranging from... yes, .357 however in an 8" barrel length and under 35 yds. with custom loads and up to .44 mag in 8" barrel length. Although the .357 certainly has enough power to take down a deer... given your ballistics and data, it is still not a wise choice.

That makes more sense, but it is a very different statement this what you originally posted.

speezack wrote:I have hunted and been around guns for almost 50 years and anyone that tells you a .357 can be used for deer sized game... well, lets just say they are mistaken.

Best choice and completely inadequate (like .22lr for a brown bear) are two very different statements. IMHO, .357Mag can be used successfully for deer sized game with a long barrel, the right load, at relatively short distances, and a competent shooter. I stress the last part the most. Technically, hunting medium to large game with a handgun is not the best choice period. However, it is more difficult and people like the challenge. Kinda like knifing a hog, not for everyone, but if you're looking for something new and want a challenge it works.

Would I use a .357 pistol to hunt deer. Yes, if it were the only thing available and I was hungry or if they had a special season for it and I could get more time on the stand. Same reason I use a crossbow, BP, and rifle. Maximize time in the woods. Those presently using a .357 or .44mag, or any pistol to hunt deer IMO most likely do so for the sport of it. Kinda the same thing as folks who love to use a long bow and are offended at folks like me calling themselves hunters during the archery season...deer dont cooperate well and just walk into your freezer...I try to use the best weapon possible to tilt that my way...a little...

All kidding aside, a .357 revolver paired with a Marlin 1894 lever gun would probably cover all of the OP's required functions on the same ammo platform.

Buffalo Bore says they get lofty performance out of loaded up .357 from an 18.5 inch barrel(http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l= ... tail&p=103).

speezack wrote:

Palladin wrote: You didn't waste any time, did you?!

mmmmmmmmmmm. It appears you may know me???

I have been correctly accused of opening my mouth and voicing my opinion... often without deep thought... if wrong, I stand corrected but then I rarely make mistakes and when I do... they are just a little ones............... and also, on other sites I have been accused of .... "pulling chains".. it isn't true.

Sometimes I jump in the water, before I see if it is cold or hot....

Nah, haven't met you before VGOF, I spell my name differently and have no ties to San Francisco...


I do like Rice a Roni, though!
And have been known to travel with guns.

gunderwood wrote:That makes more sense, but it is a very different statement this what you originally posted.<<>>Kinda like knifing a hog, not for everyone, but if you're looking for something new and want a challenge it works.

Your right 'Gunderwood', I stand corrected... I did change up a bit... I guess what I was sayings is... "you can open a can of beans with a chain saw or a screw driver but a can opener works a little better."

I can see I gotta be very careful how I word stuff on here... there are actually some intelligent members here... how refreshing, I have made a note of this and will be more .............. precise in my posts. Thank you gentlemen, I will try harder.

Palladin wrote:I do like Rice a Roni, though!And have been known to travel with guns.

Very good... do they still make that stuff... sort of like Ipana tooth paste and Bucky Beaver.... gone, gone... I remember the tune... "Rice A Roni... the San Francisco treat!!" mmmm I guess this didn't have much to do with guns... sorry.

Up until recently that was me.
Grew up with daddy's shotgun then I left home. Never had one for myself until my last year in the Navy when I had an apartment in town. Had a Sigma and Beretta 22 and Walther 22 rifle. Sold them all when I got out and moved from CA to OR. Bought a 410 and Ruger Mark III in Oregon and that was all for a while.
Only just in the last year did I finally start a collection again, with two pocket pistols.

I have harvested many deer with a revolver in both .357 magnum and a .44 magnum. A hell of a lot of the performance of the revolver depends on the ability of the shooter and his or her competence with the said weapon. I have used a 4" and a 8" in .357 and a 6" and a 10 5/8" in .44 magnum revolvers with my hand loads for both and made the determination that the deer that I was shooting at was within MY killing range.
Bill

At last count with this one it was 15 harvested.

Bill don't go hungry, either!

Me too... never said it wouldn't do it... only that it wasn't the usual choice... however, we who are active in the sport, use about anything...
this .44 Dan Wesson; 8"

or
this T/C in .44 mag., Mag-na-ported; 14"

... but as posted earlier... you can open a can of beans with a chain saw but a can opener would probably work a little easier.

At last count with this one it was 15 harvested.

Very nice!! Harvested? I just kill em.

Still working on my first...working on convincing the wife and saving the dough. Hopeing to take her to a range in March to try out some shotguns.

speezack wrote:
At last count with this one it was 15 harvested.

Very nice!! Harvested? I just kill em.

I have been called a Killer on more then one occasion in my life so I like to just stick to harvesting or harvester. My S&W .44Mag. is also Magna Ported. It makes a hell of a diffrence in the recoil.
Bill