Virginia Gun Owners Forum - VGOF

What is it with these judges. First they say that the captured somali pirates weren't really guilty of piracy, then this guy makes it ok to lie about earning military medals. These clueless liberal farces masquerading as judges need to be removed, by force if necessary. They are doing nothing but weakening our country.

Exactly , lets not forget the AZ immigration case, the 2nd amendment does not cover self defense cases and so on and so on..

The 1st amendment protects your ability to say a lot of things, but that isn't the real issue here IMHO. The real issue is that this guy is doing it (and others like him) to get something...they are commiting fraud. I.e. they wouldn't be claiming such things if there was no benefit to doing so and thus, they are acquiring something based on a lie or misrepresentation...that is fraud.

Edit: I'm not sure we need a special law for it though. Fraud is fraud.

Hey, this court decision is great. Couple of badges I always wanted to wear but never got around to getting to the schoolhouse...

So what's next? The 'freedom of speech' to be able to forge a VA State Trooper's badge and walk around with it? That would be just great. I can see the ads for it now: "Surprise your friends with 1st amendment protected artificial no knock warrants!"

Excellent article from HotAir:

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http://hotair.com/archives/2010/08/18/s ... t-the-law/

Stolen valor. Do I care about the law?
posted at 8:40 pm on August 18, 2010
by Jazz Shaw


The news which came out this week concerning the 9th Circuit Court in San Francisco ruling that the Stolen Valor law is not constitutional hit pretty hard for me. (For the record, the 10th Circuit Court in Denver has held the door open for appeal.) In case you missed it, the ruling essentially protects the “free speech” of people claiming to have earned military medals which they did not receive.

I should say right up front that, while I am a veteran, I didn’t earn any of the really “big medals.” I enlisted when I was 17, but the Vietnam war was pretty much over except for the cleanup operations and I wound up spending most of it serving under Carter. (Don’t ask. I don’t want to go there.) I got some of the usual, garden variety medals that most anyone can earn… good conduct, Pacific deployment, sharpshooter. But I wasn’t in any of the kind of action that qualifies one for the rewards under discussion in this court case. But that doesn’t mean that it doesn’t hit me hard. You see, my father was a different story. (Along with many other men in my family.)

My dad served in the Army in World War 2 in one of General George Patton’s “Vulture Squads” in France and Germany. (Our host, Ed Morrissey, has had a peek at my father’s grave and military markers.) On one of his many trips up and down the advance line he arrived in time for the relief of Bastogne. There he – and several of his buddies – ate the shrapnel from a tank shell.

My dad came home with a bronze star and a purple heart because he spent one Christmas day long ago far from home lying in a pool of blood on a frozen field so you could all be free. My dad was a real American hero – a title I have never claimed nor would I ever try to do so. So you can see, this situation has a bit of a personal import for me.

A law was passed at one point making it a crime for people to falsely claim medals such as this, as well as the vastly more revered Congressional Medal of Honor. And now the courts seem to be ruling that lying about such things is part of our constitutionally assured rights to free speech.

I’m having a bad day because of this. I’m one of those annoying people who anger my friends on both sides of the aisle when I defend the constitution, even when portions of it become annoying. And I appreciate our right to free speech. Yes, I understand that to restrict such speech you need to show “damages” to somebody else. But doesn’t falsely claiming to hold the CMOH do damage to those who really earned it, along with their families? Perhaps, but what damages? How do we define it?

I have no answers. I’m probably wrong in the eyes of the courts and, for that matter, in terms of the constitution. I just know I’m angry. And I’m not currently in the mood to apologize. If you go around claiming these medals – for whatever reason – and you never served and you never earned them… you’re a scumbag. I don’t know if you should go to jail for it, but you deserve to have your butt beaten into the ground.

[...I have an idea - let's get Blackburn, Strandlof and Pepin together along with their ACLU buddies, pack them off to Parris Island, then ship'em off to Iraquistan and see how long they last.[/quote]

I've been to Parris Island. Many times. No, not as a Marine, but as a contractor. I know for a fact they wouldn't make it out of south coastal South Carolina.

The ACLU - bear with me here - plays an important part in the American system. We do need a group that is willing to stand up for our Civil Liberties with a government that increases its reach into our rights every day.

As I said, I understand the reason for the decision. I also agree with gunderwood - let's just try these assholes under fraud laws and set precedent.

Don't even think of putting these scumbags anywhere near my brother Marines. Marines learn to fight for each other and this country at Parris Island with arms and ammunition not with their mouths like those that you mention.
Semper Fi!
Bill

Mindflayer wrote:As I said, I understand the reason for the decision. I also agree with gunderwood - let's just try these assholes under fraud laws and set precedent.

Generally I'm against making special laws as the creates confusion, overhead and loopholes. Citizens and LE are never sure what the law is because there is so much to know. Sometimes the statues conflict with each other or are vague. Criminals get off because of loopholes (when you try to create specific laws you inevidably forget something). E.g. I don't need special laws about how many rounds your gun may hold, how long the barrel needs to be, what color it can be, etc., etc. Much simplier laws can cover all potential firearm abuses.

Don't murder. Don't brandish. Manslaughter/civil suits for firearm accidents. Etc.


Most specific laws are trying to punish people before they have actually done anything wrong or prohibit efficient criminal use. Take SBRs as an example. They make wonderful CQB guns (would be awesome for homedefense), but criminals could misuse them. However, we already know criminals don't care about the law and cut their stuff down anyways. The law really only catches people who didn't know about it, does virtually nothing to stop crime.

Mindflayer wrote:The ACLU - bear with me here - plays an important part in the American system. We do need a group that is willing to stand up for our Civil Liberties with a government that increases its reach into our rights every day.

As I said, I understand the reason for the decision. I also agree with gunderwood - let's just try these assholes under fraud laws and set precedent.

Yeah but the ACLU only seems to make sensible moves about 10% of the time...relying on them to protect us from government encroachment on our rights is kinda like using bleach to cure a case of pimples...

Sasquatch:

How about just making it legal to punch them in the face?Much more satisfying.

Now that's cruel and hurtful. We are a nation of laws, after all.

The penalty should be a $5.00 fine for assaulting and battering such a person who is exercising their civil right of freedom of expression.

Funds collected from these fines should be dedicated towards VA hospitals and rehabilitation facilities for veterans, as well as scholarship funds for the chidlren of those killed by enemy action.

Please, give generously....

I use the phrase "Just because it's legal, doesn't make it right."

GS78 wrote:it don't matter. We have a president who faked his own record and half(better than half) the country voted for him. People don't give a rats ass about honor.

Some things never change. I wonder how a fetus fakes his own birth record. Wow, and I thought I had heard of everything.

Quote of the day/week:: "Fear, Bigotry, Prejudice, and Intolerance provide an unshakable foundation for hatred of the "OTHER"".

Gat6

KaosDad wrote:The more this behaviour is allowed to be "protected" the more our Verterans' honor and value is diminished.

That's already been done and being done by the illustrious government who sent these men to their uncertain fates - many who never returned to witness the deplorable manner in which the record of their "service" was treated.

The uS government is culpable and accountable for the deaths, maimings and permanent disabilities of hundreds of thousands of Americans. Hundreds of thousands of men... families... communities which will never be the same because their young men were sent into combat for no good reason.

That is the real travesty. That, and that we continue to accept it and the government keeps on doing it.

It will never stop under the current regime. We pretend to have liberty because we get to vote for a new master every four years, but we are just slaves on the government plantation.

I'm torn on this one: Is it really fraud if you say something to another citizen that you know to be a lie but do nothing else? Awards and decorations can be purchased in any number of ways. Did he get something that otherwise he would not have legally gotten by telling the lie? I mean did he get a 10 point veteran's preference or some other employment preference?

Like most of you I think wearing or claiming awards or decorations that you did not earn is reprehensible, but I'm reluctant to give the government the power to legally punish an individual when one citizen lies to another. If the Federal Government can do this for national awards and decorations, couldn't State and Local government do the same for their awards for valor? Where does it end?

Gat6
Quote of the day/week: See earlier post.

gatlingun6 wrote:Like most of you I think wearing or claiming awards or decorations that you did not earn is reprehensible, but I'm reluctant to give the government the power to legally punish an individual when one citizen lies to another.

Which is why we so desperately need to revive the concept of the Common Law Court.

Fraud perpetrated against a private individual is a serious offense in my opinion.

@Gat6 - in this case I don't think so, but I'd have to research. In other cases - YES! These nut-sacks have used their "Valor" to attain everything from a free meal, to elected office to marriage.

@wydle - Dude - I hear ya, but don't forget that the current administration only inherited the Persian Wars, didn't start them. Yesterday, we saw the direct consiquences of our actions; multiple bombings all over Iraq and we already see that northern AFGH is under Taliban/AQ control.

"Victorious warriors seek to win, then go to battle. Defeated warriors go to battle, then seek to win." - Sun Tzu; The Art of War

gunderwood wrote:The 1st amendment protects your ability to say a lot of things, but that isn't the real issue here IMHO. The real issue is that this guy is doing it (and others like him) to get something...they are commiting fraud. I.e. they wouldn't be claiming such things if there was no benefit to doing so and thus, they are acquiring something based on a lie or misrepresentation...that is fraud.

Edit: I'm not sure we need a special law for it though. Fraud is fraud.

you're correct. Another aspect of this "problem" is that society thinks it can give a bum a dollar and they get instant absolution for their apathy. I see it all the time, some loser stands on a corner with a placard claiming vet status, and "homelss" at that, and people stop at the light and throw change at these scumbags. I had one today ask if I wanted to "give to the needy vets"... I told him to get a job, and that he looked like he hadn't missed a meal in some time.

KaosDad wrote:but don't forget that the current administration only inherited the Persian Wars, didn't start them.

It's not the administration. It's the system under which the administration operates.

There is plenty of blame to go around. No need to isolate it to a single quisling scumbag. There are loads of them.