Virginia Gun Owners Forum - VGOF

If someone will point you a gun, i think you have nothing to do but if only a knife you can still fight back.

SgtBill wrote:You seem to think that I am one of your students, I am not. After 9 1/2 year's in the Military and 25 years in Law Enforcement I am aware of who and what is within my safety zone. If you talk to anyone who know's me you will find that I use a belt slide holster that has no retention strap and it holds every one of my weapons that I would carry to include my S & W Mod 686 - .357 Magnum, my Glock Mod. # 22 in 40 cal. or my Walther PK380 . On average I am more prepared then the average person that has a Con. Carry Permit and shoot better then most. So please do not try and tell me what you think I will have happen or not happen to me. Bear in mind you said a knife fight not a surprise attack from an asswipe with a knife.

Bill

And you seem to think that I am your child who will suffer through another one of your "Don't you correct me, boy" lectures. No, Bill, I do not think that you are one of my students. If you were, you might be more amenable to hearing what someone else has to say about a subject instead of spouting your holier than thou attitude. I'm just trying to impart some knowledge to those who have posted here. If you can bring other experience to the table without the "been there/done all that and a bag of chips" attitude, that's great. I understand from your previous posts that you have a chip on your shoulder about the NRA instructor program, so obviously you are going to vent your frustrations at me. That's ok, I won't hold it against you. I will expect though, that you can participate in a discussion like a reasonable adult without telling everyone how much of a God you are.

A knife is lethal force. Therefore, I will meet it with lethal force. However, I'm not about the go toe to toe in a knife fight when I'm carrying a gun.

Having just graduated (today, in fact) from Jail Basic and very recently been through firearms and defensive tactics, I am a witness that it doesn't even take the fastest to run upon an individual before a well aimed shot can be successfully taken from a holstered start, even if you're expecting it. That's when hip firing and the ability to move out of the attacker's path comes in handy. Although, that doesn't account for the few seconds of life after being shot they'll have to continue their attack.

However, the point of my post was stated in the first sentence. A knife is lethal force even if it doesn't have a 25yd range. Lethal force will be met with lethal force.

ProShooter wrote:

SgtBill wrote:You seem to think that I am one of your students, I am not. After 9 1/2 year's in the Military and 25 years in Law Enforcement I am aware of who and what is within my safety zone. If you talk to anyone who know's me you will find that I use a belt slide holster that has no retention strap and it holds every one of my weapons that I would carry to include my S & W Mod 686 - .357 Magnum, my Glock Mod. # 22 in 40 cal. or my Walther PK380 . On average I am more prepared then the average person that has a Con. Carry Permit and shoot better then most. So please do not try and tell me what you think I will have happen or not happen to me. Bear in mind you said a knife fight not a surprise attack from an asswipe with a knife.

Bill

And you seem to think that I am your child who will suffer through another one of your "Don't you correct me, boy" lectures. No, Bill, I do not think that you are one of my students. If you were, you might be more amenable to hearing what someone else has to say about a subject instead of spouting your holier than thou attitude. I'm just trying to impart some knowledge to those who have posted here. If you can bring other experience to the table without the "been there/done all that and a bag of chips" attitude, that's great. I understand from your previous posts that you have a chip on your shoulder about the NRA instructor program, so obviously you are going to vent your frustrations at me. That's ok, I won't hold it against you. I will expect though, that you can participate in a discussion like a reasonable adult without telling everyone how much of a God you are.

Yep, you are most likely right, I do have a chip on my shoulder but it may come from the fact that I have lived what I talk about and know about people that are out there just to make money off of other people's sweat and blood and think that they know the best way.Just because some multi Million Dollar Organazation told them that THIS IS THE WAY IT IS DONE don't mean that we all should follow their lead .Nor should people follow my lead. If you don't like what I have to say then don't read it. As far as the N.R.A. is concerned I was in fact an Instructor that was Cert. by them for many year's and I am a Life Member, SO WHAT, that won't save your life in a knife fight.

Now with your God Like Status as a N.R.A. Instructor go teach another class and raise the prices a little higher and I will continue to show people how to shoot for nothing

SgtBill wrote:

ProShooter wrote:

SgtBill wrote:You seem to think that I am one of your students, I am not. After 9 1/2 year's in the Military and 25 years in Law Enforcement I am aware of who and what is within my safety zone. If you talk to anyone who know's me you will find that I use a belt slide holster that has no retention strap and it holds every one of my weapons that I would carry to include my S & W Mod 686 - .357 Magnum, my Glock Mod. # 22 in 40 cal. or my Walther PK380 . On average I am more prepared then the average person that has a Con. Carry Permit and shoot better then most. So please do not try and tell me what you think I will have happen or not happen to me. Bear in mind you said a knife fight not a surprise attack from an asswipe with a knife.

Bill

And you seem to think that I am your child who will suffer through another one of your "Don't you correct me, boy" lectures. No, Bill, I do not think that you are one of my students. If you were, you might be more amenable to hearing what someone else has to say about a subject instead of spouting your holier than thou attitude. I'm just trying to impart some knowledge to those who have posted here. If you can bring other experience to the table without the "been there/done all that and a bag of chips" attitude, that's great. I understand from your previous posts that you have a chip on your shoulder about the NRA instructor program, so obviously you are going to vent your frustrations at me. That's ok, I won't hold it against you. I will expect though, that you can participate in a discussion like a reasonable adult without telling everyone how much of a God you are.

Yep, you are most likely right, I do have a chip on my shoulder but it may come from the fact that I have lived what I talk about and know about people that are out there just to make money off of other people's sweat and blood and think that they know the best way.Just because some multi Million Dollar Organazation told them that THIS IS THE WAY IT IS DONE don't mean that we all should follow their lead .Nor should people follow my lead. If you don't like what I have to say then don't read it. As far as the N.R.A. is concerned I was in fact an Instructor that was Cert. by them for many year's and I am a Life Member, SO WHAT, that won't save your life in a knife fight.

Now with your God Like Status as a N.R.A. Instructor go teach another class and raise the prices a little higher and I will continue to show people how to shoot for nothing

Let me clear up a few things for ya Billy, since you seem misguided....

I am not out there to "make money off of other people's sweat and blood". My company makes money off of MY sweat...

- MY 12 years in law enforcement....

- MY free time spent sitting there after class showing someone how to do some technique with their gun....

- MY time walking around the gun shows with people who are looking for advice on what gun to buy.....

- MY time going to someone's house on my lunch hour to show them how to disassemble and clean their Glock.

- MY time responding to the dozens of emails and pm's I get weekly asking for advice, interpretations, ideas, etc.

- MY time answering questions on message boards and correcting misinformation that is out there when I could just say "take my class and pay me for the information".

I am not affiliated with a "multi million dollar organization". I never claimed to have a "God like status". We charge a fair fee for our classes which is ALOT cheaper than what others are charging. We have a better program, that runs for a longer time and costs less money. You want to teach people how to shoot for free? WONDERFUL! Don't fault me though for having the ability to make a living off of firearms training. Don't badmouth NRA instructors because they earn a living from something that you choose to do for free.

I can't wait until the next Shoot & Greet at SgtBill's place.

We gotta get you two guys at the range at the same time.

Now who has a chip on their shoulder. If you can make a living off of your NRA Instructor status then god bless you. But do not assume that I will be cut just because someone has a knife out (look back on page one). It also seems that from your profile that without the NRA you would not have a company. (think about it)
Bill

Pro shooter's prices are very reasonable, having just checked out his website.

I hope you two good gentlemens can simma dahn nah. We are all on the same side and actually agree that a knife is a huge threat and will most likely be capable of harming a gun carrying defender.

I wish that super secret squirrel would elaborate on the correct way to hold a knife...are you afraid of educating a criminal here?

Tweaker wrote:Pro shooter's prices are very reasonable, having just checked out his website.

I hope you two good gentlemens can simma dahn nah. We are all on the same side and actually agree that a knife is a huge threat and will most likely be capable of harming a gun carrying defender.

I wish that super secret squirrel would elaborate on the correct way to hold a knife...are you afraid of educating a criminal here?

I think he may be refering to a underhand grip

you can stab in downward motion w/ great power (great for neck and sholder and chest strikes) you can use this grip to slash as well, and works best in close quarters

Since Jim wont impart any wisdom I'll dump what I know which isnt alot. There are several grip methods each with pros and cons and each used based on the threat and skill of the user. For those able to discern the skill of the opponent whether he/she be armed with knife, club, or gun or unarmed different grips might be selected. It also depends on what you might have in your other hand...another knife perhaps or a stick...and also grip and stance depends on scenario...is it a close up smelly fight or is there some distance between you and the other guy...the reverse grip is preferred by some with edge in or out depending on who trained them and how...about the only other thing I know is that if someone comes at you with a knife in a death grip pointed straight out they most likely know little about using it other than to slice an apple.

Right at you with a death grip pointed straight out then they are playing that old game called I am a Q target bet you can't put any in the center mass.
LOL
Bill

That is what I thought about the best knife hold. I have zero training with edged weapons. Thanks!

ok I don't know how this thread evolved into the best hold for a knife but I will say it depends on the design, obviously, but if its a straight blade like a Ka-Bar hold it so the edge of the blade is opposite your forearm, while the butt of the handle is directly under your thumb. The backside of the blade is resting against your forearm. This way you can use the blade for slashing upward, and blocking an incoming blow if need be causing extreme damage to the attacker. You can also use any reverse motion of your arm to execute a deadly stabbing or plunging of the blade into an assailant with force enough to break bone and cartilage...

truth is that knives are dangerous and we need more knife control, stabbing is for the movies, ask O.J.

GS78 wrote:ok I don't know how this thread evolved into the best hold for a knife but I will say it depends on the design, obviously, but if its a straight blade like a Ka-Bar hold it so the edge of the blade is opposite your forearm, while the butt of the handle is directly under your thumb. The backside of the blade is resting against your forearm. This way you can use the blade for slashing upward, and blocking an incoming blow if need be causing extreme damage to the attacker. You can also use any reverse motion of your arm to execute a deadly stabbing or plunging of the blade into an assailant with force enough to break bone and cartilage...

truth is that knives are dangerous and we need more knife control, stabbing is for the movies, ask O.J.

Yup, reverse grip edge out is the best,,,better if you've got another knife in the other hand gripped opposite and even better with a gun...

zephyp wrote:

GS78 wrote:ok I don't know how this thread evolved into the best hold for a knife but I will say it depends on the design, obviously, but if its a straight blade like a Ka-Bar hold it so the edge of the blade is opposite your forearm, while the butt of the handle is directly under your thumb. The backside of the blade is resting against your forearm. This way you can use the blade for slashing upward, and blocking an incoming blow if need be causing extreme damage to the attacker. You can also use any reverse motion of your arm to execute a deadly stabbing or plunging of the blade into an assailant with force enough to break bone and cartilage...

truth is that knives are dangerous and we need more knife control, stabbing is for the movies, ask O.J.

Yup, reverse grip edge out is the best,,,better if you've got another knife in the other hand gripped opposite and even better with a gun...

or better than a knife in the opposite hand a small hand axe or one of sog's new tactial tomahawks....that's a deadly combo indeed...you have a attacker walking up to you armed in such a fashion it's mag dump time

It is better not to get into the knife fight or a pissing contest with Morones in the first place. If at all possible avoid all contact and try and stay out of areas that you may run into trouble in. But it also seems to me that you won't run into someone that know's how to hold a fighting knife in the right position and use it properly. Most asswipes out there that would pull a knife on you don't have any type of Pro Training in the use of it.
Bill

SgtBill wrote:It is better not to get into the knife fight or a pissing contest with Morones in the first place. If at all possible avoid all contact and try and stay out of areas that you may run into trouble in. But it also seems to me that you won't run into someone that know's how to hold a fighting knife in the right position and use it properly. Most asswipes out there that would pull a knife on you don't have any type of Pro Training in the use of it.
Bill