got asked for my papers today

[wylde007]

Certain authority was vested in the certain branches by the people.

It has been abused.

The contract has been voided by their negligence and malfeasance.

[grumpyMSG]

ALRIGHTY THEN!!! Here is how we can resolve this argument, we pit wylde007 and and cigarmanva in a high quality, show of shows, tag-team Wrasslin' match at SgtBill's meet and greet with some LEO types. The fact is both VA's Supreme Court and the Federal Supreme Court have found traffic stops such as you described to be legal.

As for why the LEO would act a little apprehensive, he just asked you for your ID and you asked if you could reach in your front pocket, I think it was your question that seemed odd to him instead of just reaching for your ID. A lot of people don't like to drive and sit on their wallets. It sounds to me like you were putting off a nervous "vibe" to the officer.

As for Mindflayer's stop, from the time in the morning it occured, my guess is the LEO thought he had a DUI stop, but just needed to smell your breath to make sure. It would have been about the right time for someone closing down the bars in DC to be driving through the area.

[Mindflayer]

As for Mindflayer's stop, from the time in the morning it occured, my guess is the LEO thought he had a DUI stop, but just needed to smell your breath to make sure. It would have been about the right time for someone closing down the bars in DC to be driving through the area.

Nah, he was being a jerk. Telling me I could not afford the car, talking to me in Spanish after I told him I only spoke English, challenging me on everything, etc.

My raconteur nature affected my retelling of the story. My point was that this guy was a douche, and that's why I remember it so well as compared to my other dealings with LEO. In IT we call people like him BOFH.

[cigarmanva]

Why get angry over this? You're supposed to tell them right off that you have a CCW even though they already know it when they run your license plate. I would love to go through a checkpoint and proudly show an officer my CCW. I don't have any problems with it. Officers put their lives on the line every day and don't know how their day will go until if/ when they get home safely.

you sir, are wrong. and no they won't find out that I have my ltcf since in pa they don't tie your ltcf to anything. He never asked for any form of proof that I could carry a gun. you also missed the point of my post. I'm far less concerned with officer safety then I am with my own when his had starts to go toward his gun

[cigarmanva]

ALRIGHTY THEN!!! Here is how we can resolve this argument, we pit wylde007 and and cigarmanva in a high quality, show of shows, tag-team Wrasslin' match at SgtBill's meet and greet with some LEO types. The fact is both VA's Supreme Court and the Federal Supreme Court have found traffic stops such as you described to be legal.

As for why the LEO would act a little apprehensive, he just asked you for your ID and you asked if you could reach in your front pocket, I think it was your question that seemed odd to him instead of just reaching for your ID. A lot of people don't like to drive and sit on their wallets. It sounds to me like you were putting off a nervous "vibe" to the officer.

yes he asked for my ID and in my dealings with other leos, on boards and in person as "friends" i've always been told to ask before you move. In an attempt to make the offer feel safe i ended up feeling unsafe and apparently he did too. If you read the language of the rulings that made these stops legal you will see that it goes against not only the spirit of the ideas that the country was founded upon but also the letter of the constitution. Just because the courts ruled it so, does not make it so.

Segregation was legal until the 1960s that didn't make constitutionaly or locally legal. The rulings that the court handed down, making these stops legal, were due to leos claiming that "the people had the power" and they "were unable to do their jobs" coming out of rulings from courts before them in the 1960s under Warren only to have the powers of the police bolstered again by the courts under Rehnquist. I'll be willing to bet that at some point in the future these kinds of stops will either be found to be unconstitutional again or we will slide further down the slope and we will have to carry papers around to prove who we are.

[firstcavapache64]

Why get angry over this? You're supposed to tell them right off that you have a CCW even though they already know it when they run your license plate. I would love to go through a checkpoint and proudly show an officer my CCW. I don't have any problems with it. Officers put their lives on the line every day and don't know how their day will go until if/ when they get home safely.

You do not have to inform the LEO that you have a CHP in VA. It is not the law. In fact it will make a lot of situations more stressful if you blurt out I am carrying or I have a permit to carry concealed and I have a gun. If the LEO asks then by all means don't lie but in my opinion the less you discuss guns and the more you just act like a normal traffic stop the better it will be for you and for the officer. Someone here posted a great link to a topic called "don't be a gun dork at traffic stops" or something like that, and it had some real good advice.

[zephyp]

Why get angry over this? You're supposed to tell them right off that you have a CCW even though they already know it when they run your license plate. I would love to go through a checkpoint and proudly show an officer my CCW. I don't have any problems with it. Officers put their lives on the line every day and don't know how their day will go until if/ when they get home safely.

You are NOT required to inform here in VA even if you are carrying (OC or CC)...some other states yes but not here...

[tursiops]

this putrid union.

So you have an interesting choice....live in "this putrid union" or go live somewhere else.
Lighten up, dude, the stress you express will kill you.

[wylde007]

The stress I express will keep me alive.

Please refrain from the hackneyed, self-righteous and predictable "If you don't like it, then leave" response. It's getting old.

The fact is both VA's Supreme Court and the Federal Supreme Court have found traffic stops such as you described to be legal.

Of course they do, because it lies in their best interests, not in the interests of the people.

Just because the courts say something neither makes it true nor right.

[SgtBill]

Just because the courts say something neither makes it true nor right.

Ok, now I am in for it. I agree with you Travis 100% Please do not have a heart attack over my statement, I just had another one last week and they ain't no fun.
Bill

[Taggure]

AHHHH Travis and SgtBill are

Let the party begain

[gunderwood]

The stress I express will keep me alive.

Please refrain from the hackneyed, self-righteous and predictable "If you don't like it, then leave" response. It's getting old.

The fact is both VA's Supreme Court and the Federal Supreme Court have found traffic stops such as you described to be legal.

Of course they do, because it lies in their best interests, not in the interests of the people.

Just because the courts say something neither makes it true nor right.

Exactly correct on both points.

The "if you don't like it, then leave" crowd ignores the basic premise of our government. The Federal government only has the power we the people and the States have given it. If it violates those limits we all should be p*ssed and hold them accountable. It isn't liberty loving Americans who need to leave, but tyranny in any form or color.

So, I don't like government overstepping the bounds we have placed on it, thus technically making it illegal since the Constitution is the "highest law of the land." Therefore, I need to leave because I don't like illegal and tyrannical government?

This logic is mind boggling ignorant!

[firstcavapache64]

I gotta agree with gunderwood and wylde007, love it or leave it is BS. If our ancestors had done that we would be speaking in British accents and drinking tea. Criticizing government isn't the same as running down the country. I spend a lot of time sending emails. letters and making phone calls about issues I have with the abuses I see in government. I vote, try to educate myself and my children and make plans for any future contingencies that may or may not occur as the people grow more and more weary of a government out of control. As bad as things have gotten in regards to the federal government's lack of respect for our Constitution, this is still the greatest country in the world. I wouldn't want to live anywhere else. God bless America but god damn the politicians!

[zephyp]

@John - well put...this is still the greatest nation in the world and will be for a long time...the sad part is what we have for comparison...it aint as great as it used to be but still great...glad to hear you are still pressing with phone calls and letters...I got tired of trying to talk to a wall...