Virginia Gun Owners Forum - VGOF

The Gun Friendly Lawyers list:

http://www.hkshooter.net/lawyers/

Yep, I have already been browsing that list. I just didn't see anything in particular to CHP. I didn't know if anyone on this board was familiar with a lawyer that had previous experience in this area. I did note a few that were specializing in civil rights, I was just looking for some personal recommendations and why.

totes6 wrote:So I just got off the phone today with the Law Clerk. She stated that the Judge had review my file and would not sign the CHP without Photo Identification. I asked her to send that to me in writing, this way I have documented proof. So I guess my question is, anyone know a good lawyer that is familiar with CHP cases? I am getting tired of playing nice with the courts here in Loudoun County.

Ask the clerk where in 18.2-308 she sees the words "photo identification", except what you need to provide to a police officer, with your CHP.

Both times I talked with the Law Clerk, she stated that there was not a requirement in the State Statute 18.2-308. It was a requirement of the Judge. And today she stated that the Judge had actually reviewed the file and stated that without the photo id he would not sign off on it. So it looks like now my only option is to appeal it to the appellate courts as stated in subsection L of the above statute. Hence the reason I want to retain a lawyer. Just want to make sure I have all my i's dotted and t's crossed.

On a funnier note, I was tempted to go get a Non-resident permit from UT and use that as my photo id in front of the Judge While I probably will get the the non resident permit, still not going to hand it over to the Judge. I find it wonderful that VA has reciprocity with Utah. And in the mean time I can still open carry.

totes6 wrote:
On a funnier note, I was tempted to go get a Non-resident permit from UT and use that as my photo id in front of the Judge While I probably will get the the non resident permit, still not going to hand it over to the Judge. I find it wonderful that VA has reciprocity with Utah. And in the mean time I can still open carry.

Whenever you are ready to take our Utah permit class, just let me know. We do one per month in Richmond.

totes6 wrote:Both times I talked with the Law Clerk, she stated that there was not a requirement in the State Statute 18.2-308. It was a requirement of the Judge. And today she stated that the Judge had actually reviewed the file and stated that without the photo id he would not sign off on it. So it looks like now my only option is to appeal it to the appellate courts as stated in subsection L of the above statute. Hence the reason I want to retain a lawyer. Just want to make sure I have all my i's dotted and t's crossed.

On a funnier note, I was tempted to go get a Non-resident permit from UT and use that as my photo id in front of the Judge While I probably will get the the non resident permit, still not going to hand it over to the Judge. I find it wonderful that VA has reciprocity with Utah. And in the mean time I can still open carry.

I'm new here so I hope my post doesn't come off as a smart ass..that is certainly not my intention. I only want to play the devil's advocate for you; if the law requires that you show your id to a policeman if he asks for it, then I think it is reasonable to assume a judge has the same right.

The other issue is one I am sure your friends have mentioned to you....you have to pick your fights, so ask yourself if this is one of those cases where it is worth it. To me, you will lose here no matter what the immediate outcome is. If you piss off a judge he might even instruct a couple of his cop friends to hound you for traffic violations and what not.

I just think you are fighting city hall over something with very little upside to a victory, personally I'd drop it and give them the photo id they want.

Regardless, I despise red tape and the whole anal mentality behind it, the judge is reacting to what he probably sees is a rebellious attitude on your part, and he thinks he is doing his civic duty to make it difficult for you to get a license since rebellion is akin to lawlessness.

I am a libertarian/moderate who thinks government is no longer by the people and for the people.

gdwill2u wrote: I just think you are fighting city hall over something with very little upside to a victory, personally I'd drop it and give them the photo id they want.

So what's to stop the Judge for asking for employment history, grade school report cards, DNA samples, notarized character references, and so on? They can just make up their own requirements? That kinda goes against the whole point of SHALL ISSUE.

Not only do I think he should fight it, I think he should contact the VCDL.

LFS wrote:

gdwill2u wrote: I just think you are fighting city hall over something with very little upside to a victory, personally I'd drop it and give them the photo id they want.

So what's to stop the Judge for asking for employment history, grade school report cards, DNA samples, notarized character references, and so on? They can just make up their own requirements? That kinda goes against the whole point of SHALL ISSUE.

Not only do I think he should fight it, I think he should contact the VCDL.

I guess you are basing your feelings on principle and in essence I agree; however this is too small an issue to command national awareness and I still see little upside to a victory here. I think it would be in the OP's interest to gain the support of his local legal community, just in case he ever has to discharge his weapon or God forbid any other such action that places him under the scrutiny of any prosecutor or judge.

Just my lil 'ol $.02

gdwill2u wrote: I'm new here so I hope my post doesn't come off as a smart ass..that is certainly not my intention. I only want to play the devil's advocate for you; if the law requires that you show your id to a policeman if he asks for it, then I think it is reasonable to assume a judge has the same right.

Wrong, actually. The requirement to show your id to a LEO is mandated in the Code. The Code says nothing about providing photo id to the judge when applying for your permit. Now Appeals courts have held that you do have to show documentation to the Clerk of the Circuit Court when submitting your application to show that you reside where you say that you do. Once the Clerk accepts that id and submits your app to the Judge, photo id is a moot point.

gdwill2u wrote:The other issue is one I am sure your friends have mentioned to you....you have to pick your fights, so ask yourself if this is one of those cases where it is worth it.

I just think you are fighting city hall over something with very little upside to a victory, personally I'd drop it and give them the photo id they want.

But see, the problem there is that this process is very methodically detailed in the Code and there is no variation needed. The Clerk/Judge should follow the Code as written. Its like these places that demand a SASE when you apply. Nothing in the Code requires that. Give 'em an inch.....

ProShooter wrote:

gdwill2u wrote: I'm new here so I hope my post doesn't come off as a smart ass..that is certainly not my intention. I only want to play the devil's advocate for you; if the law requires that you show your id to a policeman if he asks for it, then I think it is reasonable to assume a judge has the same right.

Wrong, actually. The requirement to show your id to a LEO is mandated in the Code. The Code says nothing about providing photo id to the judge when applying for your permit. Now Appeals courts have held that you do have to show documentation to the Clerk of the Circuit Court when submitting your application to show that you reside where you say that you do. Once the Clerk accepts that id and submits your app to the Judge, photo id is a moot point.

gdwill2u wrote:The other issue is one I am sure your friends have mentioned to you....you have to pick your fights, so ask yourself if this is one of those cases where it is worth it.

I just think you are fighting city hall over something with very little upside to a victory, personally I'd drop it and give them the photo id they want.

But see, the problem there is that this process is very methodically detailed in the Code and there is no variation needed. The Clerk/Judge should follow the Code as written. Its like these places that demand a SASE when you apply. Nothing in the Code requires that. Give 'em an inch.....

Better be careful, you're starting to sound like me.

gunderwood wrote:
Better be careful, you're starting to sound like me.

Perhaps it is you, who sounds like me!

So, I went down to the Loudoun Courthouse (after a visit to the Sheriff's Office) and filed all my paperwork. I found the whole process went smoothly (so far - let's see what the mailman brings). What struck me was the rather adversarial tone of the recipt. Eveidently I am now a Plaintiff? Hunh.

KaosDad wrote:So, I went down to the Loudoun Courthouse (after a visit to the Sheriff's Office) and filed all my paperwork. I found the whole process went smoothly (so far - let's see what the mailman brings). What struck me was the rather adversarial tone of the recipt. Eveidently I am now a Plaintiff? Hunh.

A plaintiff is a party asserting a claim in a civil matter....so yes, you are!

@gunderwood and Jim - you actually sound like of them engineer weenies who just got asked for the time...

But, I agree with Jim...the VA code provides a detailed process for a reason and it should be followed and enforced...after all its the LAW

Maybe we should do like they are doing now with seat belts...put one of them flashing signs right in front of the clerk and judge's desk...and let the code scroll...

I got my CWP today. SIX business days!!! Wowzers.

Congrats!. Now you're ready for the July 1 restaurant carry apocalypse

OakRidgeStars wrote:Congrats!. Now you're ready for the July 1 restaurant carry apocalypse

They'll be bloodshed in the streets, fer sure!

I predict bloodshed at the salad bar. Better be careful if you're grabbing too many bacon bits

So who is filming the OK Corral II?

Or is that the "Golden Corral II"....

"Aimlessly scanning the ceiling while standing in the crab leg line, feeling, yet not feeling, the beavertail comfortingly sticking in his side, Gunderwood thought he was prime position for the "all you could eat", He thought that it included desert, HE Thought HE GOT FREE REFILLS...HE THOUGHT HE COULD EAT BACON BITS BY THE SPOON FULL...BUT HE was wrong, all wrong, as it was all he could eat alright, but it was a different dish than what was on the menu...as he failed to notice the stranger in the dark hoodie, tatered converse all stars, and shifty glances trying to look inconspicuous by the lavishly colored cake cart wrapped with the tacky plastic greenery. Hoodie Stranger Man actaully gave the thought a momment to simmer in his concious, to the fact that the frosting on the cakes looked to be more plastic than the greenery..."

(( Go DK Go!))