Virginia Gun Owners Forum - VGOF

The best method is the grab and twist counterattack, try to rip them off, the BG will go down from the pain.
As you back away, ladies, empty the OC in the BG's face, dial 911 and get to a secure area.
I've had women friends attacked, the fighters always won. A BG is a coward first and foremost, maybe vicious, but still a coward.

Well I have to tell you Eliot I have had many conversations with my daughter's diffrent boy friend's even the one she is going to marry this April 17th. I would tell them that it was a simple fact that I am getting old and may not be able to go toe to toe with a young guy like him but I could still put SIX IN HIS CHEST no matter how old I get. Don't hurt or disrespect my daughter and I won't kill you. She has been upset with me on several occasions over the year's but she still loves me.
Bill

Well said Bill...

and can you extrapolate a little bit on effective use of your voice as a tool....
I KNOW you have some background on that...
I.e. - How, when, what to say...etc..
Thanks!!

But I have been informed by many that I am very soft spoken, don't you agree Eliot. LOL
Bill

coltman wrote:The best method is the grab and twist counterattack, try to rip them off, the BG will go down from the pain.
As you back away, ladies, empty the OC in the BG's face, dial 911 and get to a secure area.
I've had women friends attacked, the fighters always won. A BG is a coward first and foremost, maybe vicious, but still a coward.

I have to agree with what you are saying. But I would add, lady's as you retreat reload as soon as possible this also is a damn good idea for you guy's out there.
Bill

I'm glad to hear all your thoughts on fending off attack. Thank you! I have a couple of questions:

1) I have a confidence issue with carrying a firearm with me at all times. It makes me really nervous still, even though I've been training myself for a few years now. I always have pepper spray and a knife but how can I feel more comfortable carrying? I'm doubt I'm the only woman with this issue. Maybe more easy to use holster options for women would help? I think a gun shop would make a killing if they packaged a 'self-defense' kit with a small carry piece, extra mags, ammo, simple cleaning kit, and a holster all in one box.

2) Many attacks are by people we know. I was attacked once by someone who I thought was a friend and was so flabbergasted that I lost a lot of time to fight. And sadly, I initially didnt want to hurt him. How do I overcome my natural female inclination to not want to harm others? Does it all come down to practice and professional training?

Sweetpea wrote: 1) I have a confidence issue with carrying a firearm with me at all times.

I would start there. Why the lack of confidence?

What's your current carry setup?

EDIT: I'm guessing this is part of it:

natural female inclination to not want to harm others?

BTW, Good question J.

Sweetpea wrote:I'm glad to hear all your thoughts on fending off attack. Thank you! I have a couple of questions:

1) I have a confidence issue with carrying a firearm with me at all times. It makes me really nervous still, even though I've been training myself for a few years now. I always have pepper spray and a knife but how can I feel more comfortable carrying? I'm doubt I'm the only woman with this issue. Maybe more easy to use holster options for women would help? I think a gun shop would make a killing if they packaged a 'self-defense' kit with a small carry piece, extra mags, ammo, simple cleaning kit, and a holster all in one box.

2) Many attacks are by people we know. I was attacked once by someone who I thought was a friend and was so flabbergasted that I lost a lot of time to fight. And sadly, I initially didnt want to hurt him. How do I overcome my natural female inclination to not want to harm others? Does it all come down to practice and professional training?

well I would say, if you're able, to take a good martial arts class, you will be surprised what regular practice with a good system and instructor will do for your confidence. This of course goes for all defense, so if martial arts does not interest you, get professional help with weapon handling, drawing and firing. The more practice and good instruction you get , will boost your confidence. The whole "natural female inclination to not want to harm others?" does not compute. The attacker surely wants to hurt you, so you need to just dispose of this emotion. Its you or him, do your best to make it , him.

The idea of a "starter kit" for shooters, male or female might seem like a good idea, but I don't think it would work. I work in a gun shop a couple days a week and from helping both men and women I would say that there is no "one size fits all" men or women. It is totally dependent on how they dress, how they want to carry (inside waist band, small of back, outside of pants, etc.) as well as what they are going to carry. When I sell a handgun I always ask if they need a holster, ammo, speed loaders or extra mags., cleaning gear, etc. We also offer a class to prepare for concealed carry that meets the requirements to get a permit. I have been known to even discourage someone from buying a gun if I don't feel they are mentally sound enough to be safe with a gun. And before someone accuses me of being judgmental, whenever you deal with people over a long period you develop a sense when something just isn't quite right about a situation. Anyone who is in or has been in law enforcement knows what I mean.

Sweetpea wrote:I'm glad to hear all your thoughts on fending off attack. Thank you! I have a couple of questions:

1) I have a confidence issue with carrying a firearm with me at all times. It makes me really nervous still, even though I've been training myself for a few years now. I always have pepper spray and a knife but how can I feel more comfortable carrying? I'm doubt I'm the only woman with this issue. Maybe more easy to use holster options for women would help? I think a gun shop would make a killing if they packaged a 'self-defense' kit with a small carry piece, extra mags, ammo, simple cleaning kit, and a holster all in one box.

2) Many attacks are by people we know. I was attacked once by someone who I thought was a friend and was so flabbergasted that I lost a lot of time to fight. And sadly, I initially didnt want to hurt him. How do I overcome my natural female inclination to not want to harm others? Does it all come down to practice and professional training?

J, heres a link to a book. Not sure how good it is, but take a gander through the description. I think in the case of your "friend" maybe you could explain the facts of life and let them know they got a pass this time. Next time it wont be so easy. I wouldnt be afraid to defend yourself. The time you elect not to might be the one time where you get badly hurt or worse. Too many scumbags out there looking to take advantage of a "friend" or defenseless woman.

http://superstore.wnd.com/store/item.asp?ITEM_ID=1775

Chicago govt officials cannot endorse any removal of criminal action whatsoever especially by arming citizens because the SOB's would be putting themselves out of a job.

My Personal Favorite:

Which would you rather explain to the judge?
1. Details of how you were raped and beaten OR
2. Why you shot the bastard in the head.

Yeah but the real thing a woman would have to explain in Chicago if she shot a rapist would be why she had an "illegal" gun. No doubt she would charged on the spot. Then she's the bad person. I honestly cant imagine people up there putting up with this crap....

zephyp wrote:Yeah but the real thing a woman would have to explain in Chicago if she shot a rapist would be why she had an "illegal" gun. No doubt she would charged on the spot. Then she's the bad person. I honestly cant imagine people up there putting up with this crap....

You can't imagine it because you have not lived under the oppression of a welfare state. Lets not forget the demographics of these areas, chicago, new york, Los Angeles.....huge urban populations of unemployed, under-employed, and maybe even unemployable.people. If you were being kept in a political office with all the power and wealth that goes with it, by this population who re-elect you on promises of "keeping them safe, housed and fed" at no cost to themselves with tax dollars.....you would not want them armed either. A legally armed citizenry tend to be much more independant, self reliant and secure, all three of these personal traits are the antithesis of what those politicians need to survive.

J, I only wish you lived closer so that I could teach you what you need to know. Over the year's I have instructed many female's in the way's to protect themselves. I just can't do it on this or any other board, I have to see the person's face and her expressions while I am talking or showing her something. I sure wish you could make it to our shoot and greet in June. As some people from this board can tell you I have 2 basic way's that I can teach you to shoot. One for a good score and two to kill without hesitation.
I will tell you that your mind set has to be changed away from ( I don't know if I can kill this person) to (I am the last person in this life that you will attempt to do this to) You must get it out of your head that you can't kill someone. Everyone is capable of killing, some just refuse to believe it or admit it.
If you have any questions that I might know the answere to shoot me an P.M.
Bill

Sweetpea wrote:I'm glad to hear all your thoughts on fending off attack. Thank you! I have a couple of questions:

1) I have a confidence issue with carrying a firearm with me at all times. It makes me really nervous still, even though I've been training myself for a few years now. I always have pepper spray and a knife but how can I feel more comfortable carrying? I'm doubt I'm the only woman with this issue. Maybe more easy to use holster options for women would help? I think a gun shop would make a killing if they packaged a 'self-defense' kit with a small carry piece, extra mags, ammo, simple cleaning kit, and a holster all in one box.

2) Many attacks are by people we know. I was attacked once by someone who I thought was a friend and was so flabbergasted that I lost a lot of time to fight. And sadly, I initially didnt want to hurt him. How do I overcome my natural female inclination to not want to harm others? Does it all come down to practice and professional training?

I agree with SgtBill, anyone can kill. Anyone can teach someone to kill. Pick up any daily paper and read about it, everywhere. When it comes to self defense, most people think males will act faster and more efficient because of gender, and I would agree. Its the nature of the beast, or man as it pertains here. The male of the species is usually the hunter/killer, while the female is more nurturant...well you know, we need not get into the whole societal structure.... You may get something from this website http://www.a-human-right.com/

Sweetpea,
your thought process, i believe, is a normal one for insightful folks, who also happen to carry life and death with them at their side...forethought and consideration and uncertainlty in one self are great leads into acknowledging your human, your have feelings and doubts and hopes and aspirations, etc...

Which for me, also helped gain some perpective on the ability and the right to defend myself and mine from anything or anybody, or at least give it the honest try, and go out standing...

For me, it was mostly getting real in my own head what is going on around us and what i read in the papaer every day and how i would feel if i it happened to me or mine, AND i had the abilty to stop, deter, and or alter the outcome...

and Practice, Practice, Practice....

and i am going to start tryign to clear my calendar now to make it to Bill's Farm meet and shoot in June...as i want some first hand instruction and to watch and learn from others...


And Bill, its just what i have heard, but i understand you walk softy and carry a LARGE piece...

A female self defense class is an excellent idea. Sometimes it's necessary to use hands-on force before a self defense weapon can be used effectively.

A local gun club may also have a womens group. My guess would be that a lot of women share the same emotions especially when they start carrying or think about carrying.

Good info for female holsters about halfway down:
http://www.io.com/~cortese/firearms/index.html

Links for women:
http://www.topshot.com/dh/GunLinks.html
http://www.womenshooters.com/
http://www.aware.org/

Rental gun videos for women: http://thunderflix.com/Girls-Guns.html
I'm not sure how good the videos above are, but it's $6 each to find out.

I really want to come to the June shoot & greet. I'll try but I'm pretty sure I'll be away on business.

The reasons I have for being nervous about carrying are many. But I think I really need a smaller gun. I absolutely love my SigP220.45 but it's just not natural in my hand and a little too powerful. Good excuse to save up for a new gun! I have several options for it (fannypack, belt clip-on holster, purse) but I'm short and it's heavy and bulky. And I think that in turn makes me feel less in control of the weapon.

I think you are all right and I (and women in general) really need to get to professional training classes for some quality outside influence. I wish I were closer to you as well SgtBill! If I can't make the S&G I'll be in contact so maybe we can do something else. Thanks for all your helpful responses! The links are really great reading so far.

BluemontGlock wrote:and seemily contstanly cleaning my hardware when ever they are over....

I really wanna get the chance to do this but I can never get my little sister to tell me when she has a boyfriend, better yet get her to bring him over so I can scare the pants firmly into place on him

I can remember my oldest son and my youngest son meeting some of my daughters boyfriend's after that there would never be a problem. Bill Jr. is and has been 6'5" and 300 lbs. since he was 16 years old and my youngest son Jimmy is 6'4" and about 230 and has been since he has been about 17 year's old and then there is the old man me. All three of us are or were U.S.Marines and in Law Enforcement.
Bill