There's a new SHERIFF in town....

[zephyp]

The problem the states have is money. For too long they have been dependent on the nanny principal and now have too much invested with the federal government to pull out.

[gunderwood]

The problem the states have is money. For too long they have been dependent on the nanny principal and now have too much invested with the federal government to pull out.

All the more reason to push to audit the Federal Reserve. If there is nothing funny going on (unlikely IMHO), nothing to worry about. Funny thing just struck me about that comment. Another, everything is topsy-tervy. It is suppose to be the government is transparent and a citizens life is private. However, today, the government is hiding behind secrecy, while they expect citizens to hand over the details of their genitalia to the TSA full body scans. Yes, I know the images are fuzzy today, but ever see the old punch card computers?
Upgrades!


I think Jefferson was right when he stated:

"And I sincerely believe, with you, that banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies; and that the principle of spending money to be paid by posterity, under the name of funding, is but swindling futurity on a large scale." http://wiki.monticello.org/mediawiki/in ... Quotation)

[zephyp]

IMHO the federal reserve act was one of the worst decisions our congress ever made - other than a federal income tax.

[graybeard321]

IMHO the federal reserve act was one of the worst decisions our congress ever made - other than a federal income tax.

Dk I think you could in my humble opinion add a few to your list.
- Welfare
- Social security
- Doing away with the draft.
Some people may not agree with my first two, but i believe both were created with good intentions, but the downside to both out way the good they may do. As for the draft I believe that men and woman should give two years of service to our great country.

as for the UN gun ban, several years back I attended a NRA convention at which The UN ambasator Mr Bolton was the key note speaker. You may would to search the NRA archives for his speech for all the details, But he made it clear that it is not a treaty and congress does not have to approval it and with a single stroke of the pen, they can take our guns from us.

[gunderwood]

- Doing away with the draft.
Some people may not agree with my first two, but i believe both were created with good intentions, but the downside to both out way the good they may do. As for the draft I believe that men and woman should give two years of service to our great country.

I personally prefer a militia system like the Swiss have. Sure, everyone serves and must qualify, but it is a lot harder for politicians to abuse. Armed America by Clayton E. Craymer covers the Colonial and American militia system in some detail. Can be a slow read (it's written by a history buff, cut him some slack), but is well worth the effort. A great aspect of the militia system as Craymer points out, is that they sometimes didn't show up. When the community was threatened, they showed up and the results were varied (depends on how commited they were to becoming riflemen before the conflict). When the local politician wanted to stir up trouble with the Indians or another enemy, they stayed home. Kept them from commiting to wars they really weren't interested in fighting. A draft kinda does the opposite.

http://www.amazon.com/Armed-America-Rem ... 1595550690

[GS78]

- Doing away with the draft.
Some people may not agree with my first two, but i believe both were created with good intentions, but the downside to both out way the good they may do. As for the draft I believe that men and woman should give two years of service to our great country.

I personally prefer a militia system like the Swiss have. Sure, everyone serves and must qualify, but it is a lot harder for politicians to abuse. Armed America by Clayton E. Craymer covers the Colonial and American militia system in some detail. Can be a slow read (it's written by a history buff, cut him some slack), but is well worth the effort. A great aspect of the militia system as Craymer points out, is that they sometimes didn't show up. When the community was threatened, they showed up and the results were varied (depends on how commited they were to becoming riflemen before the conflict). When the local politician wanted to stir up trouble with the Indians or another enemy, they stayed home. Kept them from commiting to wars they really weren't interested in fighting. A draft kinda does the opposite.

http://www.amazon.com/Armed-America-Rem ... 1595550690

thats a good point, but wouldn't that lead to communities of militia clans kind of like gangs, the stronger ones inevitably becoming the ruling power structure.?

[gunderwood]

- Doing away with the draft.
Some people may not agree with my first two, but i believe both were created with good intentions, but the downside to both out way the good they may do. As for the draft I believe that men and woman should give two years of service to our great country.

I personally prefer a militia system like the Swiss have. Sure, everyone serves and must qualify, but it is a lot harder for politicians to abuse. Armed America by Clayton E. Craymer covers the Colonial and American militia system in some detail. Can be a slow read (it's written by a history buff, cut him some slack), but is well worth the effort. A great aspect of the militia system as Craymer points out, is that they sometimes didn't show up. When the community was threatened, they showed up and the results were varied (depends on how commited they were to becoming riflemen before the conflict). When the local politician wanted to stir up trouble with the Indians or another enemy, they stayed home. Kept them from commiting to wars they really weren't interested in fighting. A draft kinda does the opposite.

http://www.amazon.com/Armed-America-Rem ... 1595550690

thats a good point, but wouldn't that lead to communities of militia clans kind of like gangs, the stronger ones inevitably becoming the ruling power structure.?

I think that is a straw-man. First, there is nothing stopping that today, other, than the structure of liberty and morality we already have. There is still a need for local, State, and Federal law enforcement. There is also still a need for a professional officers corp to lead the militia. Second, to my knowledge, it hasn't happened anywhere it has been tried. There is something fudementally different when you have to go fight vice sending some 18 year old man/woman you don't know. Finally, I agree with John Adam's when we pointed out that no piece of paper or form of government or institutional structure can save a people from themselves. Any attempt to do so, reduces the citizen to a slave. If the people are unethical and immoral to the point which they are willing to take up arms against their neighbor, nothing but totalitarianism will stop that...naturally, it doesn't really stop it, just rearranges the participants.

"We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge, or gallantry, would break the strongest cords of our Constitution as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other."
John Adams, Address to the Military, October 11, 1798

[GS78]

what I was referring to was your statement about the militia that decides NOT to fight a fight brought about by a wayward politician. In this exact scenario, who decides ? and if only "some" of the militia decide its a worthy fight, what of the rest? surely there would be consequences to not participating

[gunderwood]

what I was referring to was your statement about the militia that decides NOT to fight a fight brought about by a wayward politician. In this exact scenario, who decides ? and if only "some" of the militia decide its a worthy fight, what of the rest? surely there would be consequences to not participating

Sorry, took that comment a slightly different way. Yes, historically, the punishment was a trivial fine; like a moderate speeding ticket. If I recall correctly, the militia would be paid for their service (training or otherwise). The government would also pay for ammo and any damaged or lost arms. Each man decides for himself. Ultimately, it would be him who is being asked to lay down his life. In times of real danger, nearly everyone who was required showed up. The records exist to some extent since government payment was recorded.

[GS78]

what I was referring to was your statement about the militia that decides NOT to fight a fight brought about by a wayward politician. In this exact scenario, who decides ? and if only "some" of the militia decide its a worthy fight, what of the rest? surely there would be consequences to not participating

Sorry, took that comment a slightly different way. Yes, historically, the punishment was a trivial fine; like a moderate speeding ticket. If I recall correctly, the militia would be paid for their service (training or otherwise). The government would also pay for ammo and any damaged or lost arms. Each man decides for himself. Ultimately, it would be him who is being asked to lay down his life. In times of real danger, nearly everyone who was required showed up. The records exist to some extent since government payment was recorded.

well we could go back and forth forever on this, I agree with the concept of each man putting up his own life would be the one to decide, however IF we were in that situation today we would be in sad shape I'm affraid.

[gunderwood]

what I was referring to was your statement about the militia that decides NOT to fight a fight brought about by a wayward politician. In this exact scenario, who decides ? and if only "some" of the militia decide its a worthy fight, what of the rest? surely there would be consequences to not participating

Sorry, took that comment a slightly different way. Yes, historically, the punishment was a trivial fine; like a moderate speeding ticket. If I recall correctly, the militia would be paid for their service (training or otherwise). The government would also pay for ammo and any damaged or lost arms. Each man decides for himself. Ultimately, it would be him who is being asked to lay down his life. In times of real danger, nearly everyone who was required showed up. The records exist to some extent since government payment was recorded.

well we could go back and forth forever on this, I agree with the concept of each man putting up his own life would be the one to decide, however IF we were in that situation today we would be in sad shape I'm affraid.

Yes, we would be in awful shape, skills that aren't exercised are lost. Don't forget that a lot of the original settlers didn't know those skills when they got off the boat. They brought men who did and started learning. We became a nation of riflemen out of necessity. There was no nanny state to look out for us.

I have found that when discussing restoration of liberty for the individual, there are valid, practical objections to it. Certainly, today the people are so used to having a nanny state, things would not be pretty if someone just flipped a switch. However, restoration gradually has issues too. Mixing and matching liberty vs. statism leads to unintended consequences. That is exactly the problem we face today. Healthcare has issues, but look how many times the government has stepped in to help. They are causing the problems. Case in point, how did we get HMO's? Universally hated as they are?

The bottom line is that liberty once lost, requires sacrifice to restore.

[GS78]

I agree with all of that.

[GS78]

email from dudley Brown.



Dear fellow patriot,

With willing one-world accomplices in Washington, D.C., gun-grabbers around the globe believe they have it made.

In fact, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton just announced the Obama Administration would be working hand in glove with the UN to pass a new “Small Arms Treaty.”



Disguised as legislation to help in the fight against “terrorism,” “insurgency” and “international crime syndicates,” the UN Small Arms Treaty is nothing more than a massive, GLOBAL gun control scheme.

Ultimately, the UN’s Small Arms Treaty is designed to register, ban and CONFISCATE firearms owned by private citizens like YOU.

That’s why it’s vital you sign special petition I’ve made up for your signature that DEMANDS your U.S. Senators vote AGAINST ratification of the UN’s “Small Arms Treaty!”


So far, the gun-grabbers have successfully kept the exact wording of their new scheme under wraps.

But looking at previous versions of the UN “Small Arms Treaty,” you and I can get a good idea of what’s likely in the works.

If passed by the UN and ratified by the U.S. Senate, the UN “Small Arms Treaty” would almost certainly FORCE national governments to:



*** Enact tougher licensing requirements, making law-abiding citizens cut through even more bureaucratic red tape just to own a firearm legally;


*** CONFISCATE and DESTROY ALL “unauthorized” civilian firearms (all firearms owned by the government are excluded, of course);


*** BAN the trade, sale and private ownership of ALL semi-automatic weapons;


*** Create an INTERNATIONAL gun registry, setting the stage for full-scale gun CONFISCATION.
So please sign the petition to your U.S. Senators before it’s too late!

http://www.townhallmail.com/bqbkpntjkkc ... vrk.htmlto





You see, this is NOT a fight we can afford to lose.

Ever since its founding almost 65 years ago, the United Nations has been hell-bent on bringing the United States to its knees.

To the petty dictators and one-worlders who control the UN, the U.S. isn’t a “shining city on a hill” -- it’s an affront to their grand totalitarian designs for the globe.


These anti-gun globalists know that so long as Americans remain free to make our own decisions without being bossed around by big government bureaucrats, they’ll NEVER be able to seize the worldwide oppressive power they crave.

And the UN’s apologists also know the most effective way to finally strip you and me of ALL our freedoms would be to DESTROY our gun rights.

That’s why it’s vital you act TODAY!



The truth is, there’s no time to waste.

You and I have to be prepared for this fight to move FAST.

The fact is, the last thing the gun-grabbers in the U.N. and in Washington, D.C. want is for you and me to have time to react and mobilize gun owners to defeat this radical legislation.

They’ve made that mistake before, and we’ve made them pay, defeating EVERY attempt to ram the “Treaty on Small Arms” into law since the mid-1990s.

But this time, time won’t be on our side.

In fact, we’re likely to only have a few days or weeks to defeat the treaty.

Worse, there’s no longer a pro-gun Republican Senate to kill ratification of the treaty.


There’s no longer any Republican in the White House who has stated opposition to the treaty.

And you and I know good and well how Germany, Great Britain, France, Communist China or the rest of the anti-gun members of the United Nations are going to vote.

So our ONE AND ONLY CHANCE of stopping the UN’s “Small Arms Treaty” is during the ratification process in the U.S. Senate.



As you know, it takes 67 Senate votes to ratify a treaty.

With 40 Republicans, that should be easy, right?

Unfortunately, that couldn’t be further from the truth.

First, you know just as well as I do that not all the remaining Republicans in the Senate are “pro-gun” in any sense of the term.

Second, even with the partisan rancor in Washington, D.C., many GOP Senators get “queasy” about killing treaties for fear of “embarrassing” the President -- especially with “international prestige” at stake.

They look at ratifying treaties much like approving Presidents’ Supreme Court nominees.

And remember, there were NINE Republicans who voted to confirm anti-gun Supreme Court Justice Sonia Sotomayor.

A dozen more GOP Senators only voted against Sotomayor after receiving massive grassroots pressure from the folks back home.


So if we’re going to defeat the UN’s “Small Arms Treaty” we have to turn the heat up on the U.S. Senate now before it’s too late!

That’s exactly where this petition comes in.

So won’t you click here to sign IMMEDIATELY?

[OakRidgeStars]

A little background on the U.N. gun treaty and it's most enthusiastic supporter, Hillary Clinton.

http://www.nraila.org/Issues/Articles/R ... &issue=015

[BluemontGlock]

I have a rant I need to get out, that has been stewing since acouple of days ago when I got my mail... & as i tell my spouse "ignore me if you have to, as i am about to get angry..."

Gunderwood,
you make a fine point of "open government and private citizens"
and how that has becomed flip flopped for "our protection"..
the possible prospects are pretty scary...and those prospects make me angry...

Bottom line is I don't want it,...the US gov't's illegal phone taps of its own citizens...the "Patriot" act, and until you are going to start checking up people cornholes, what is the use? the suicide bomber doesn't care if he is ripped into pieces from a belt of explosives or from an ass full of explosives... and its all made of plastic now, so why the metal detectors?? no one is going to get away with a hijakcking using a razor knife anymore, we are far more callous and People have been standing tall all over and taking matters into thier own hands for protection... the TSA is total political trash... " the system worked fine " ..what system? where? It was an individual who stood tall, and saved the day...sounds like nepolitano (sp?) is smoking bad crack...and when when the gov't catches the emails to the heritic cleric, they don;t do anything about it...(Maj Hassan /Ft. Hood)... is it me? it must be me..gotta be,..

Terrorism? and terroists...?
I say Let them come...I think they will find a very different America than the America of 9/11... an angry and pissed America that has taken it in the Kyster one to many times from the man, while trying to protect me from the "otherman"...when does the madness stop? perhaps just about the time i get my hands/sights on the "otherman"...

it is time for American Muslims to step up and police and out there own, no more hiding behind your "version" of the religion that is good, and "those poeple" who follow the same religion are the bad ones...
BS !... you want to be treated as equal Americans?...prove it. actions, not words...platitudes and pretty saying and catch phrases i have enough... Yes, you can practice any religion you please, provided it doesn't infringe on anyone elses, killing people is an "infringment"...FYI!

When do we get to believe in the sanctity of our country again, by and for the poeple, (me and you ) who PAY FOR IT ALL...

So damm tired of this crap...we just liberated a country that is literally floating on a sea of oil, and we are paying $3/gallon?? Why do we have to save the world...As I no longer care about saving the world...I just don't...adn we can't. it is the hard truth.

We jumped into the Tsunami rescue, why don't we let Sweden/France/Switzerland save Haiti???
seems fair enough to me... as we don't care about proximity, why does everyone else??

and those who want to discuss the global economy, and free trade, then let us first discuss countries that artificially control the valuation of thier currency...it is all crap...all of it...it like i tell the folks I work with..."what would you do if it was just you alone? Great!! do that...."

Lets feed our own children, lets educate our own children, lets house our own homeless, let care for our Vets, and elderly, lets pay down our debt, lets cure our own illness,...FIRST, then we can look around and see where we can make a difference. This is NOT a Judeo-Christian view, but, IMHO, it needs to be the American View. yes it is isolationism, but we need a little bit of that right now...maybe a lotta bit.

The Red Cross taught me a fundimental rule of aid...You cannot help another until you have your house in order...our house, well it looks alot like a condemed pig farm that is sliding into the sinkhole to me right now...how are those budget cuts going in each persons locality??? great fun huh??
any thing that really matters to you getting hacked off...Like the 4H programs, the sports programs for your kids, forcing pay to park for high schoolers when we paid for the damm building in the first place...how about the cost of your health care, if you have it, co-pays going up? it is becoming one giant screw job...

how much money does it take to fill a hole? Dunno, but i betchu that we are well on our way to finding out in Haiti...how much assistance did Haiti give to the Katrina surviviors??... we should match it by 10 fold, send it back with a note that says "good luck"...otherwise, are you ok with passing that country millions, perhaps billions for the next 'x' years to come...and when / who is going to cut them off? WHO? no one ,,, thats who...it will never be enough...it never is...

(SIDEBAR: and what is with those people from Idaho stealing kids.... if it is true, just shoot those people and spare us the film at 11)

we have saved our perverbial tree nuts as a nation, and now we need give them away b/c they didn't?? huh?? WTF ???
... that is not how the story goes from my childhood...

After they kill off the middle class by trying to save us from terrorism, overtaxation, misrepresentation, and giving away everything you have worked for, what then... i am just curious...
what then...

So irratated at this point that I would like to request that UN come to my house first to discuss the removal of my firearms and rights...but in actuallity, I'm not really in the mood to do much talkin'...

GOD BLESS AMERICA...and lets let some freedom ring for a change...
Carry on...

[BluemontGlock]

ok...sorry for the 9 mile (privious) post...!!
next time, i will condense it a bit and just post ...
"Man, i am pissed..." and you will know what i am talking about...

thanks for letting me vent...

[WildBill44]

As I have stated before, every day we get closer to the point where just the right spark is going to start a conflagration that cannot be put out. All the denial and BS that it can't or won't happen here is just wishful thinking. It HAS happened here, it HAS happened in many other places and the BIG difference is that we are a nation of armed citizens who will not give up our guns or freedom to ANYONE! You want 'em, come get 'em!

[GS78]

Um, did you guys sign the petition?......

[zephyp]

Um, did you guys sign the petition?......

Yup and I agree with Mr. Bluemont. You send those UN thugs over to my house...

[graybeard321]

Yup and I agree with Mr. Bluemont and DK. You send those UN thugs over to my house "from my cold dead hands"

How can the Senate sign a treaty that is in conflict with our Constitution rights?