Virginia Gun Owners Forum - VGOF

Thank you

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SHMIV wrote:1000 yards is 3000 feet. 1 mile is 5280 feet, so 1000 yards is less than a mile. Personally, I can read most signs on the interstate (on a clear day, on a long straight stretch of road) at about 3/4 mile, and see them at 5 miles. With a good set of binoculars, I imagine that one could figure out exactly who was coming when they get 1000 yards out.

Military snipers are trained to shoot at such long distances. Surely, they know who they are about to shoot. A shtf scenario would be, pretty much, a war zone. If a military sniper is justified in taking out a man at that distance in a war overseas, then I would think that a man defending his property in a war at home would be afforded the same justification.

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A military sniper, knows his equipment very well and knows it's limitations as well as his own. They are also given rules of engagement as to what is considered a threat and what isn't. Usually it involves a positively identified weapon or actions that are identified as threatening, for example use of optics and a cell phone right before a mortar attack on a dismounted patrol or filming of a convoy's response to a suspected IED.

Yes, 1000 yards is less than a mile, but it is more than a half mile. I have serious doubts that anybody can read a road sign at 3/4 of a mile, a billboard maybe, but not a road sign. With a decent optic, sure it would be readable at that distance. I just don't see an SHTF scenario that would justify any action like that. I can see various natural disasters and accompanying chaos and possible civil unrest by some groups, but not some scene out of Mad Max. A more realistic approach would be to focus on engagement distances where vocal warnings can be given and heard. 100 to 150 yards would be a better distance, if you want to double it to 200-300 yards, that would be within reason too.

As for optic selection, lay off the big high magnification optics. The higher the magnification, the smaller the field of view is. A good rule of thumb for a combat optic is 1X for each 100-200 yards. Soldiers and Marines are quite effective with the 4X ACOGs 600 yards or more. For 250 yards or closer I wouldn't hesitate to use an Aimpoint myself. Big magnification is fine for shooting targets, varmints and long distances, but it hurts more than it helps at short range.

All due respect, Grumpy, I stand by my statement, including the part about my eyesight. I drive through states such as Arizona, New Mexico, and Texas with great frequency. With long,straight stretches, several miles in length, I am afforded the opportunity to test my eyesight on a regular basis. While it's not as good as it was 10 years ago, my eyesight is still far better than average.

As to the rest of it, I don't expect a Mad Max scenerio, either, but, at the same time, it's not unreasonable to prepare for it. If you are prepared to take out a target at 1000 yards, then 100 yards should be just as easy.

Frankly, I don't understand the discouragement. The OP set a high standard of achievement for himself, so I say reach for the goal.

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Thanks for the encouragement shmiv

For ~1,000yds...If your sticking with an AR15 look into a 6.5mm Grendel upper by Alexander Arms which is in Radford, Va. If you want something bigger look at an Ar10 or a Ruger Precision Rifle in 6.5mm Creedmoor.

My personal choice for a budget ~1,000yd rifle/glass combo is a Ruger PR in 6.5 Creedmoor with a Vortex Viper HS LR 6-24x50. I just need to save up for the ~$2,550 which in my humble opinion a bargain for what your getting.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6.5mm_Grendel
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6.5mm_Creedmoor

folks, some background data.. his optics budget was < $200.

Its going to be a while before any serious long range gear is on the shopping list.

In my horrible failure of trying to buy affordable scopes, I can confirm with great shame and saidness, that there is no such thing as a good scope or even a somewhat reliable scope in that price range unless it's for a 22LR bolt gun. I've had my .308 shake apart scopes that were $1,000-$1,400 inside of 3 or 4 trips to the range. $400-$500 stuff typically didn't survive the whole first outing.

your 308 was a special case... I'm fairly sure you could have got a wrecking ball with picitinny mounts, and that gun would have reduced it to sand in < 250 rounds.

Hahaha. Could be. I put it up for sale at a local gun yesterday. Hopefully it will sell soon.

I've only had one scope "fall apart" on a rifle. An old Weaver K4 steel tube scope broke a cross hair on my Ruger 10/22. A .22 rimfire.

My M1A has had the same scope on it for almost 40 years. No issues That's the oldest scope I own. Well, the oldest I bought new. I've got an older scope on my 03A4 sniper rifle (original scope, maybe, one of those Weaver 330 3/4" tube scopes.)

What kind of .308 did you have that destroyed scopes?

There were 2. A DMPS LRT broke 2 scopes. I sold it, thinking there was a problem with the rifle, and replaced it with a SIG 716. I went through 5 scopes in about a year. They started off fine, but by the time I got between 300 to 500 rounds down range and I would go from sub-MOA groups to groups opening up beyond 10 MOA.

I know its not the rifle, because with iron sights, it delivers all day long. I want to get more distance, so I am selling the SIG 716. I brought to VA Arms hoping it will move soon. I have my eye on a nice long range rifle that I hope to get cash for before someone else can buy it.

Anyway, after talking to a few people who have been around them, rumor has it that the strong forward inertia from the BCG and the piston system create a serious forward recoil. The assumption is the SIG needs a scope that would be made to use on a SCAR-H, which also has a ton of forward recoil. Got tired of trying and gave up.