Hey, Cali! How's all that "gun control" working for you?

[dorminWS]

I meant before he hurt anybody else.

[WRW]

I meant before he hurt anybody else.

Which brings to my mind the impotence of law enforcement in these situations. Given that, how could anybody refuse civilians the right to self protection?

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[VACoastie]

They didn't have a warrant to search his home. Would you want someone to call the cops on you and have them rummage through just because someone said so? I'll bet not.

Don't blame the cops. They were doing what they were asked to do which was check up on the guy. He seemed to have a calm demeanor so they left. Just as they would do with anyone else. The kid was an intellectual to some extent and very well spoken. Smoke and mirrors.

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[dorminWS]

VACoastie is right. The cops should not have been given the task of "checking on" this guy if he'd exhibited the behavior that was reported. It's not their job and they aren't trained for it. Can't speak about Kalifornia, but in VA, what should have happened was that someone should have initiated a temporary detention order, whereby the cops get sent to pick the guy up and take him to a mental health facility for an evaluation. That said, it's entirely possible that the evaluation would not have prevented what happened; just as it did not prevent what happened with Creigh Deed's son. But in any event, it is not the cops' fault.

[VACoastie]

Dormin (or anyone else), do you know who is it that enacts those detentions? I would think maybe the Psychiatrist in the case of this guy. Or maybe a concerned relative?

Never heard of that before so that's new to me.

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[dorminWS]

You must go before a Magistrate and swear out an affidavit that states adequate grounds for the TDO, which is, as I understand it, that the person constitutes a danger to himself or others. And, of course, the allegations must be substantial and persuasive. I believe almost anyone can do it, but a Magistrate is obviously more likely to be persuaded by someone with personal knowledge or some training or expertise; like family, a doctor, or even a policeman. I know of a couple of situations where a person's counselor has been contacted and asked to pursue a TDO, but they refused, and I've been told that is usually what happens with counselors. But the problem with relying on the police is that the process ties up an officer, who must pretty much accompany the detainee until the matter is resolved by either releasing or committing the detainee. Check out the linked article below on the Deeds fiasco and watch the attached video at the bottom of the article for an explanation of the disconnect.

http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/washin ... rror-story

[WRW]

It reads as though some feel that I blame police for this situation. That is not the case. What I am saying is that there is little that they can do to prevent this type of activity and that such activity, once begun, is seldom brought to an early conclusion by police. There seems to be an unrealistic expectation, by gun control advocates, of police capabilities to mitigate these rampages when scrutinizing the event in hindsight.

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[SHMIV]

I don't know how things work these days, but my best friend had an experience with involuntary commitment back in the late 90's.

His girlfriend, at the time, broke up with him. As he'd spent the past year or so supporting her and her child, while also going to school, he was a bit upset. And he said some words out of anger. Nothing he said implied that he was inclined to cause harm to himself or others.

Yet, the next day, officers showed up to his apartment, told him that a "concerned citizen" had called in and said that he was a danger to himself, and they took him, involuntarily, to the nearest looney bin.

They showed up, apparently, with the instruction and intent, to take him in. Based, presumably, on the word of a spiteful woman.

This happened in Blacksburg, VA.

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[mamabearCali]

He was a crazy sadistic young man that was a product of his own choices, hollywoods degenerate mindset and his parents mal-attention.

I put primary responsibility on his shoulders. Some of it goes to his parents too, and some of the blame goes on a hedonistic culture that objectifies women and treats intimacy like a cheap drug.

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[OleMan]

He was a crazy sadistic young man that was a product of his own choices, hollywoods degenerate mindset and his parents mal-attention.

I put primary responsibility on his shoulders. Some of it goes to his parents too, and some of the blame goes on a hedonistic culture that objectifies women and treats intimacy like a cheap drug.

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Well said!

[dorminWS]

I don't know how things work these days, but my best friend had an experience with involuntary commitment back in the late 90's.

His girlfriend, at the time, broke up with him. As he'd spent the past year or so supporting her and her child, while also going to school, he was a bit upset. And he said some words out of anger. Nothing he said implied that he was inclined to cause harm to himself or others.

Yet, the next day, officers showed up to his apartment, told him that a "concerned citizen" had called in and said that he was a danger to himself, and they took him, involuntarily, to the nearest looney bin.

They showed up, apparently, with the instruction and intent, to take him in. Based, presumably, on the word of a spiteful woman.

This happened in Blacksburg, VA.

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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

In some places a lot depends upon who is doing the alleging and who may have quietly made a phone call to pave the way. I don't have any problem believing that some well-connected lawyer or local politician could make a phone call and get somebody committed; or that the same thing could happen if the spiteful women happened to be connected to the police/politicians/lawyers/etc. It is also possible that some rabidly feminist social worker got hold of the matter and decided to teach a filthy make chauvinist pig a lesson. In addition, I have had occasion in the past to observe that the Blacksburg Police Department can at least at times act like a bunch of damned Nazis; particularly when they are dealing with students at V-T. There's ample room for abuse in any system; and where there's room, it WILL happen. That's what makes this business of background checks involving "mental health" so dangerous.

[MarcSpaz]

I had a family member get jammed up on a TDO following an ER visit. There was no judge or magistrate involved until I tried to get them out.

This person was using a hunting knife as a screw driver (to lazy to go get a screw driver) and accidentally stabbed themselves in the front of their thigh. Went to the ER for stitches and like a fool, blabbed about it being self-inflicted via stupidity. The ER Doc was required to call in a psych consult from a counselor at the hospital because it was self-inflicted. Within 30 minutes, they where involuntarily committed for a 72 hour evaluation and hold.

It took me two days, two lawyers and a real mental health doctor testifying at an emergency hearing to get my family member out. The psychiatrist told the judge during the hearing that (following his in-person evaluation) not only was my family not a danger to themselves or anyone else, but the involuntary committal and detention was actually causing harm both physically and mentally. Even then, the judge would only release my family member to my custody, not just a standard dismissal.

The best part... the State sent me a bill for "medical treatment and evaluation" during the involuntary committal and detention. I called the State hospital on the phone and said some things that are so nasty, that I wouldn't feel comfortable with publishing the comments on this forum. BUT, I will say that they definitely understood that I was not happy and NOT paying them anything.

For what its worth, I went into the State mental health hospital to visit. It was a jail, not hospital. There is no way anyone was getting any help there.

We will incur the occasional psycho as a side-effect of being free. The problem is, we aren't really truly free or someone other than the bad guy would have been armed and able to stop him.