Virginia Gun Owners Forum - VGOF

zephyp wrote:My apologies, Jim, but I aint buyin it about the IWB. The code states "hidden from common observation." If I'm carrying an IWB and tuck properly my pistol is not hidden from common observation and is clearly visible. If you can show me in the code where it talks about percent visible or other than "hidden from common observation" then I'll be convinced.

The Code doesnt address percentage, I simply used that as an example to quantify my answer. The Code does however further define "concealed" as "a weapon shall be deemed to be hidden from common observation when it is observable but is of such deceptive appearance as to disguise the weapon's true nature". Now that defintion is generally used for things like sword canes, etc. I have seen some attorneys spin some wonderful arguments, so in my mind anything is possible.

You are obviously free to do as you wish, which is the same thing that I tell my students. I only offer my opinion and the opinion of the person (that I asked) who may be prosecuting someone. I asked 2 people, one said he could make a solid argument for concealment, the other said that a concealment charge would be weak as its a grey area.

Well, if ya ask me its pretty hard to disguise a cocked and locked Colt .45 in stainless with rosewood grips sticking out of an IWB holster. It's true nature is quite obvious to even the most casual passer by.

zephyp wrote:Well, if ya ask me its pretty hard to disguise a cocked and locked Colt .45 in stainless with rosewood grips sticking out of an IWB holster. It's true nature is quite obvious to even the most casual passer by.

Yes, that may be very obvious BUT not everyone carries that gun in that holster with the same body style.

For example - This is the type of IWB holster that I use with my Glock. This photo shows a very good representation of how I generally would look carrying IWB:



The advertising for this holster says "Your gun virtually disappears when wearing this IWB.
The design puts the gun lower in the belt line than any other holster we've seen."

Now imagine that black gun against a black shirt and pants...a good prosecutor could argue the deceptive nature theory.....

Maybe with black pants and shirt. I dont wear black and my EDC is a stainless Colt with rosewood grips, but your observation is valid point. And that prosecutor would have to be up for re-election.

zephyp wrote:My apologies, Jim, but I aint buyin it about the IWB. The code states "hidden from common observation." If I'm carrying an IWB and tuck properly my pistol is not hidden from common observation and is clearly visible. If you can show me in the code where it talks about percent visible or other than "hidden from common observation" then I'll be convinced.

I think what Jim is trying to say (correct me if I'm wrong) is that regardless of the method you use to OC when entering an establishment that requires it, much is left to the discretion of the officer who is called in and the Commonwealth's Attorney if you are charged with a crime, then finally the judge. There are several things about carrying a firearm that are fairly cut-and-dried, but there are a lot of things that are open to interpretation and perception of a particular incident.

So, to be on the "Safe side", I would tell people to lean toward an OC that is as clear as possible (i.e. much of your sidearm showing so as not to confuse the issue). Now, with that said, I'm going to carry in my IWB and tuck when necessary and hope that I don't come across some schmuck who feels the need to try and prove a point.

Wow, you guys are quick on the draw with this post! There were three replies in the 5 minutes or so that it took for me to submit mine!

allingeneral wrote:

zephyp wrote:My apologies, Jim, but I aint buyin it about the IWB. The code states "hidden from common observation." If I'm carrying an IWB and tuck properly my pistol is not hidden from common observation and is clearly visible. If you can show me in the code where it talks about percent visible or other than "hidden from common observation" then I'll be convinced.

I think what Jim is trying to say (correct me if I'm wrong) is that regardless of the method you use to OC when entering an establishment that requires it, much is left to the discretion of the officer who is called in and the Commonwealth's Attorney if you are charged with a crime, then finally the judge. There are several things about carrying a firearm that are fairly cut-and-dried, but there are a lot of things that are open to interpretation and perception of a particular incident.

Very well said. That is the point I'm trying to make. Do not leave anything open to interpretation if you can.

One thing to add - I remember the old phrase about "the best place to hide something is in plain view". I think that phrase is appropriate here.

Well, the law is the law and Colt is clearly visible and not disguised in any way when I tuck. Now I will consider this when I carry a dark pistol (and I do occassionaly) especially when wearing a dark shirt.

When you guys carry concealed and then move your shirt/jacket/sweater/whatever you have on behind your pistol, is there anything that secures your pistol in place? If the weapon is open to view, is it not open to be "grabbed?" Seeing as how I just turned 21, I am definitely behind you guys in knowledge. Do these holsters just "hold" your guns, or do they also "secure" your guns?

MuShuGordon wrote:When you guys carry concealed and then move your shirt/jacket/sweater/whatever you have on behind your pistol, is there anything that secures your pistol in place? If the weapon is open to view, is it not open to be "grabbed?" Seeing as how I just turned 21, I am definitely behind you guys in knowledge. Do these holsters just "hold" your guns, or do they also "secure" your guns?

My IWB does not have a thumb strap - which I do not recommend - for a good reason. OC holoster is different. You want a thumb break on those. OC sits farther away from the body and easier for someone else to easily grab. My IWB weapon is held firmly in place so a BG will have trouble snatching it but its easy on the draw for me. I'd have to be half asleep for someone else to get my weapon from the IWB holster without facing a big problem - me. Best thing to do is find a gun store that sells the holster you want (or one similar) and check it out.

Holsters as a rule have what is called a resistance fit,, Easy explanation is the holster is slightly smaller than the gun so there is a bit of snugness to both hold and secure the weapon. There are alos some with tension screws that allow adjustment of the snugness, When drawing with a waist type holster, it is held by the belt, or a paddle which fits between the body and pants much like an IWB which fits inside the waist and is held between the body and garment during drawing.. A shoulder rig requires a shrug type manuver to get the weapon out quickly.. Basically you shrug your shoulders up and while leaning slighly forward you grasp the weapon and literally rip it out of the holster.. depending on fit the opposite hand can help stabilize the holster if necessary, As DK mentioned check out several types and then make a decision .. You may find you want a couple of styles for different purposes. IE: Concealed vs Open Carry