Fail: Cuccinelli vs "Sodomites"

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NovaHunter
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Re: Fail: Cuccinelli vs "Sodomites"

Post by NovaHunter »

SpanishInquisition wrote:
trailrunner wrote: Why not enact laws specifically addressing pedophilia?

Best...question... EVER! :first:

I mean, really. This seems like a no brainer. Why would the extant verbage have been selected, if not to allow a catch-all that could be selectively enforced? Or was Richmond afraid of losing the NAMBLA vote if they target pedophiles specifically? :roll:

Spanish,

Changing the statue is a fair question, and perhaps deserves discussion. My point is though this by and large hasn't been a major issue for this campaign and the GOP isn't talking about it one way or the other. The only reason why anyone is talking about is is when a reporter or blogger is trying to play "Gotcha" or say "The anti-sodomy law needs to be invalidated by the courts". That's not an intellectually honest way to try and discuss changing the law.
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Re: Fail: Cuccinelli vs "Sodomites"

Post by trailrunner »

NovaHunter wrote:

Look at the code:

"§ 18.2-361. Crimes against nature; penalty.

(...snip...)

Section A seems to cover adults (and animals too, I guess).

Sections B and C cover incest, and not necessarily pedophilia. I sure hope there are other laws to cover pedophilia between people who aren't related.

But this is still missing the point. If he said that we need to review the laws, and any law that criminalizes the sexual activity of consenting adults in private should be repealed (period), then this would be a non-event and the liberal media, as bad as they are, wouldn't have anything to write about. Instead, he comes out defending anti-sodomy laws by saying they have other uses. This just plays into their hands.
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Re: Fail: Cuccinelli vs "Sodomites"

Post by j1mmyd »

trailrunner wrote:
NovaHunter wrote:What the left doesn't talk about is how the law is applied. The anti-sodomy laws are routinely used to put pedophiles in jail.
Why not enact laws specifically addressing pedophilia?

I don't buy the argument that we should accept a law that is so broad that almost all people are breaking it, but we're supposed to trust the government to only enforce it selectively against certain groups.
That's where I'm at with it. I'm not sure what on God's green earth was going on in Virginia that the law was written in this way, but it clearly needs to be evolved so as to not be fodder for all of this. You'd think the sitting AG would see that.
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Re: Fail: Cuccinelli vs "Sodomites"

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Re: Fail: Cuccinelli vs "Sodomites"

Post by SpanishInquisition »

Here we go again. Please show me where in this excludes consenting adults in the privacy of their own home, 'cuz it simply AIN'T in there. If there is lipstick on your dipstick... even that of your loving wife, you run the risk of becoming a convicted felon.
The law is poorly written, and the AG should have gotten the legislative branch to refine the law rather than defend the existing version. He didn't because doing so would chafe against his Catholic views. Time now to cue Monty Python to sing "Every Sperm is Sacred".



§ 18.2-361. Crimes against nature; penalty.
A. If any person carnally knows in any manner any brute animal, or carnally knows any male or female person by the anus or by or with the mouth, or voluntarily submits to such carnal knowledge, he or she shall be guilty of a Class 6 felony, except as provided in subsection B.

B. Any person who performs or causes to be performed cunnilingus, fellatio, anilingus or anal intercourse upon or by his daughter or granddaughter, son or grandson, brother or sister, or father or mother is guilty of a Class 5 felony. However, if a parent or grandparent commits any such act with his child or grandchild and such child or grandchild is at least 13 but less than 18 years of age at the time of the offense, such parent or grandparent is guilty of a Class 3 felony.

C. For the purposes of this section, parent includes step-parent, grandparent includes step-grandparent, child includes step-child and grandchild includes step-grandchild.


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Re: Fail: Cuccinelli vs "Sodomites"

Post by trailrunner »

NovaHunter wrote:See my comments here:

http://vagunforum.net/politics/message- ... ml#p172191
You keep posting the same defense of Cuccinelli, but ignore the arguments against what you're saying. This isn't much of a discussion.

Fine, stick to your guns. Then watch as Cuccinelli loses the election. This type of arrogance is helping the R party lose too many elections.
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Re: Fail: Cuccinelli vs "Sodomites"

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Re: Fail: Cuccinelli vs "Sodomites"

Post by Kreutz »

SpanishInquisition wrote:Here we go again. Please show me where in this excludes consenting adults in the privacy of their own home, 'cuz it simply AIN'T in there. If there is lipstick on your dipstick... even that of your loving wife, you run the risk of becoming a convicted felon.
Married men get those? :confused:

Tell me what dark sorcery is involved to make it happen.

Please!
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Re: Fail: Cuccinelli vs "Sodomites"

Post by NovaHunter »

SpanishInquisition wrote:Here we go again. Please show me where in this excludes consenting adults in the privacy of their own home, 'cuz it simply AIN'T in there. If there is lipstick on your dipstick... even that of your loving wife, you run the risk of becoming a convicted felon.
The law is poorly written, and the AG should have gotten the legislative branch to refine the law rather than defend the existing version. He didn't because doing so would chafe against his Catholic views. Time now to cue Monty Python to sing "Every Sperm is Sacred".
SI,

It is 100% illegal to apply the Crimes against nature law in VA to consenting adults. U.S. Supreme Court Decision Lawrence vs. Texas. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodomy_law ... ted_States

"However, in 2003 the Supreme Court reversed the decision with Lawrence v. Texas, invalidating sodomy laws in the remaining 14 states (Alabama, Florida, Idaho, Kansas, Louisiana, Michigan, Missouri, Mississippi, North Carolina, Oklahoma, South Carolina, Texas, Utah, and Virginia)."

It has been illegal for 10 years to apply the crimes against nature law to consenting adults. Ask yourself, why is this an "issue" now when it wasn't in the last two Governor's races we had (2005 and 2009)? This also is not a law that was written recently. It dates back to before the founding Fathers. I believe Thomas Jefferson in 1787 even tried to amend the VA Crimes against nature law so that the penalty for sodomy was castration instead of death for males. Jefferson failed actually in that attempt. As far as I know, the law hasn't been changed in almost 100 years.

Getting back to the point, no one, especially Ken, is advocating that this law be applied to consenting adults and Ken even states "the law is not – and cannot be – used against consenting adults acting in private" again because of the Supreme Court decision in 2003.

So, why is sodomy even being talked about?

A 47 year old Virginia man was convicted of soliciting oral sex from a 17 year old minor girl. He was prosecuted under the Crimes against Nature law. Part of that Supreme Court decision in 2003 was that Sodomy law still did apply to Sexual predators. However, the 47 yr old man appealed his conviction to the 4th Circuit Court of Appeals. The 4th Circuit Court of Appeals 2-1 decision effectively struck down that VA's Anti-Sodomy Law could be used to prosecute a sexual predator. Because this was the statue he was prosecuted under, he would now go free if the 4th Circuit's ruling stood. Ken's office chose to appeal the 4th Circuit's ruling to the U.S. Supreme Court. Furthermore, there are potentially 90 other sexual predators that would be taken off VA's sex offender registry if 4th Circuit Court of Appeals ruling stands.

This is the context that the "sodomy" issue has to be discussed in order to be in line with reality. The simple question is, "Should convicted sex offenders that have been prosecuted under VA's Crimes Against Nature Law just be let free?" If your answer is "NO" to that, then you should agree with the action the the AG's Office has taken. If you say "YES" to that question, then you should disagree with with the action the the AG's Office has taken.

There is no Pro-BJ or Anti-BJ position.

Another point I will make. Ken is very smart politically. He knew that if his office challenged the 4th Circuit ruling that the MSM and his opponents were going to twist it, take him out of context, and use it to say all types of lies about him. He still decided to go ahead and challenge the 4th Circuit's Ruling, because he believed it was the right thing to do. I want a Governor that will make decisions even if it isn't the politically expedient thing to do.

Last point, a few have commented on a legislative remedy for the current Crimes against nature law. That is a very valid discussion to have. However, the practical matter is that if the 4th Circuit's ruling was allowed to stand unchallenged (and if U.S. Supreme Court agrees with the 4th Circuit) then sexual predators convicted under the law would go completely free. It is not possible to make a law now and apply it retroactively to these cases. I would absolutely encourage you to talk to your legislator about changing this law if it's something you really care about. But, changing the law next July has no bearing on a Court case that is in the court system NOW.

My appeal is that people actually look at the facts of this issue, what Ken's office actually is doing, and not just listen to the MSM and liberal talking points.
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Re: Fail: Cuccinelli vs "Sodomites"

Post by Swampman »

Kreutz, you ate the cake and let your betrothed eat it as well. Everyone knows wedding cake is the anti-aphrodisiac! :hysterical: And, it lasts a life-time! :hysterical:
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Re: Fail: Cuccinelli vs "Sodomites"

Post by SpanishInquisition »

See my post in the other thread that shows where the AG, when he was in the legislative branch of the commonwealth, had an opportunity to fix the "BJ Loophole", but chose instead to oppose changes to the law that would allow wives to give their hubbies that oh-so-special kiss, and for hubby to return the favor.
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Re: Fail: Cuccinelli vs "Sodomites"

Post by Swampman »

They say brides are smiling on their wedding day because they know that in a few hours they won't have to do that anymore! :hysterical:
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Re: Fail: Cuccinelli vs "Sodomites"

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Swampman wrote:Kreutz, you ate the cake and let your betrothed eat it as well. Everyone knows wedding cake is the anti-aphrodisiac! :hysterical: And, it lasts a life-time! :hysterical:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

HMMM.... Could that be why all those black babies are born out of wedlock? Da Brothas KNOW better than to ever feed them wedding cake. :hysterical:
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Re: Fail: Cuccinelli vs "Sodomites"

Post by ratherfish »

j1mmyd wrote:Sorry, but a vote for Sarvis is still a vote for T-Mac. The left is too organized/hive-minded to let their bloc be pulled apart by Libertarians.

(Note: I sincerely hope to look back on this statement in a couple months and be proven wrong.)
Good luck with that one!

Many promoting the Sarvis "moral high ground" did the same thing voting for a candidate that couldn't win or just got tired of absorbing left wing slime and didn't vote resulting in Obummer's coronation.

The right elected Obummer. Like sheep to the left's slughter...some of us warned you long and well.

What likely will follow this discourse will be a diatribe as to why the alternative was worse, or personal slander.
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Re: Fail: Cuccinelli vs "Sodomites"

Post by dusterdude »

I see mr sarvis getting my vote
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Re: Fail: Cuccinelli vs "Sodomites"

Post by ratherfish »

Why not vote McAwfull and avoid the middle man.

:coffee:
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Re: Fail: Cuccinelli vs "Sodomites"

Post by scrubber3 »

How did voting for a libertarian go the last time? That's right, 4 more years of our country going to hell. Wake the F up folks. See the forest for the trees.

If you're only voting for sarvis because your worried about not being able to have buttsex, then you need to rethink your morals. Much more is at stake than buttsex and blowjobs.
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Re: Fail: Cuccinelli vs

Post by Kreutz »

scrubber3 wrote:If you're only voting for sarvis because your worried about not being able to have buttsex, then you need to rethink your morals. Much more is at stake than buttsex and blowjobs.
:hysterical:

Pure unadulterated win right there.
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Re: Fail: Cuccinelli vs "Sodomites"

Post by dorminWS »

Y'all ever notice how political issues elevate the level of discussion here?

It has just bumped us up from God-given Second Amendment rights to buttsex and blowjobs. How inspiring. :hysterical:
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Re: Fail: Cuccinelli vs "Sodomites"

Post by Reverenddel »

I'm a Libertarian, but I'm also a realist.

I like Ken Cuccinelli for one reason, he does what he says. I may disagree with him 89% of the time, but I don't agree with T-Mac maybe 2%...

Why would I vote my "conscicous", knowing that I'm going to get the guy in office whom I disagree with MORE!?!?

That's like saying I hate Spinach, and I hate Beets, but I'm gonna not eat because I have no other choice.
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