Page 2 of 2
Re: Illinois Sheriff Siezing Thousands of Firearms
Posted: Wed, 31 Jul 2013 12:06:37
by HotD
HotD wrote:MarcSpaz wrote:dorminWS wrote:
Not only that, but guns are the only materialistic item guaranteed by the Constitution.
Everyone has the God given right to protect them self. The 2nd amendment recognizes that and preserves that right.
Actually, it really isn't. For example:
4A: The right of the people to be secure in their persons,
houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
Re: Illinois Sheriff Siezing Thousands of Firearms
Posted: Wed, 31 Jul 2013 13:55:47
by MarcSpaz
The 4th amendment doesn't secure our right of ownership to those belongings. Only that the government cannot search your property and it can't be seized without probable cause.
Plus, "people" are listed as an item that can't be searched or seized. Applying your suggestion would mean that the constitution has labelled people as a possession we can own via a constitutional guaranty. We all know that to not be true.
If it said something like "your right to own a home, papers and effects shall not be infringed upon", that would be different.
Re: Illinois Sheriff Siezing Thousands of Firearms
Posted: Wed, 31 Jul 2013 20:29:49
by HotD
MarcSpaz wrote:The 4th amendment doesn't secure our right of ownership to those belongings. Only that the government cannot search your property and it can't be seized without probable cause.
Plus, "people" are listed as an item that can't be searched or seized. Applying your suggestion would mean that the constitution has labelled people as a possession we can own via a constitutional guaranty. We all know that to not be true.
If it said something like "your right to own a home, papers and effects shall not be infringed upon", that would be different.
4A secures our right to ownership and possession by limiting government to due process. Otherwise, whats the point of the amendment?
You'll also not that I did not highlight the word "persons", as I already know that people are not items. Though Habeas corpus would tend to have the same effect of that of an object. Just ask anyone who has been unlawfully incarcerated by government.
Additionally, just to be clear.......A firearm can still be seized, despite the 'right' articulated by 2A.
Re: Illinois Sheriff Siezing Thousands of Firearms
Posted: Wed, 31 Jul 2013 21:48:28
by MarcSpaz
I will concede... for now
LOL
Re: Illinois Sheriff Siezing Thousands of Firearms
Posted: Wed, 31 Jul 2013 22:12:26
by dmharvey
dorminWS wrote:Look at it this way. If you get a license to drive a car in Virginia, and then commit certain offenses, the Commonwealth WILL take your license away from you.
But he doesn't confiscate your car. It is your valuable property which you may dispose of legally.
And guess what? You don't even have a constitutionally-protected right to have a car.
Re: Illinois Sheriff Siezing Thousands of Firearms
Posted: Thu, 01 Aug 2013 08:21:26
by Reverenddel
Look at it this way...
We don't freakin' live in Illinois, and most of us are SMART enough to avoid that state like the plague.
Re: Illinois Sheriff Siezing Thousands of Firearms
Posted: Thu, 01 Aug 2013 09:26:53
by allingeneral
Reverenddel wrote:Look at it this way...
We don't freakin' live in Illinois, and most of us are SMART enough to avoid that state like the plague.
I grew up there and have a certain fondness for the flat country and corn fields in the middle of the state. Chicago is like a plague...Illinois would be a great state without it.
Re: Illinois Sheriff Siezing Thousands of Firearms
Posted: Thu, 01 Aug 2013 10:09:39
by HotD
allingeneral wrote:Reverenddel wrote:Look at it this way...
We don't freakin' live in Illinois, and most of us are SMART enough to avoid that state like the plague.
I grew up there and have a certain fondness for the flat country and corn fields in the middle of the state. Chicago is like a plague...Illinois would be a great state without it.
Having lived in Western New York State for a great many of years, I concur similarly with a fondness of the Niagara River, the rolling Boston hills, Lakes Erie and Ontario; and that the state would be better off without New York City.
Its not the state which sucks.....Its the political libtard mentality that becomes codified into its state's law. Which brings us to who's fault that is succeeds........the apathetic television watchers who don't get off our respective behinds to call, write, and generally pester our elected officials to return the rule of law, along with truth and common sense into government, AKA: All of us.
Its our own damned faults that Illinois is the way it is.
Re: Illinois Sheriff Siezing Thousands of Firearms
Posted: Thu, 01 Aug 2013 10:10:57
by HotD
MarcSpaz wrote:I will concede... for now
LOL
Okay. LOL