Virginia Gun Owners Forum - VGOF

Rich wrote:I don't think so. I am in my 60's and I have seen various groups at various times predict something like this many times over the years. Short of a near total economic collapse I dont expect anything major to happen. By and large I think most people are too apathetic and too lazy to be bothered.

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I hope you're right; and you may be. But it seems to me the situation is different and the USA is more vulnerable than ever before:

-Only 47% (if you ignore all the manipulative statistical tricks) are employed in this country
-Vastly more people are more dependent upon the dole than ever before
- The dollar is less sound, and has more viable competing currencies than has been the case for a very long time.
- Our manufacturing base is pretty much a shambles
- Our population, even though it has always been said to be a "melting pot", is considerably less homogenous and united than before. There are just more factions that are more likely to not respect the "peace and dignity" of our society if they get hungrier or needier.
- Said population is even more concentrated in urban and suburban areas and even less capable of "living off the land" or "getting by" for a while if the store shelves go empty and/or the cards (EBT and otherwise) stop swiping.
- Our whole damned economy is operating on a just-in-time inventory basis with razor-thin inventories designed to cut carrying costs, so that a disruption of a day or two in any major logistics chain and the resulting cascading out-of-stocks for vital supplies could have the impact of a hurricane Katrina even for a relatively short-term hiccup. The fact that so much of what our supply chain delivers originates overseas, and the deal gets worse.
- Finally, IMO our financial system is currently being dangerously manipulated by both the federal government and Wall Street; which in my view makes it much more susceptible to the kind of collapse that could bring about chaos.

I'm sure I've overlooked other substantial points of difference with earlier times, but there is ample reason to be concerned that our future stability and security will not be as secure as our past.

Not a bet I would make personally. Lot's of good comments in this discussion.

I would suggest that conversations such this would best be held while taking a walk in the park.

Jim

arkypete wrote:I would suggest that conversations such this would best be held while taking a walk in the park.

Jim

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I guess this is where I point out that I am not advocating or eagerly anticipating such a calamity; but only speculating in the hypothetical about a possibility. Occurs to me that if we can't do that here, then it probably ain't safe in the park, either.

“But great as our tax burden is, it has not kept pace with public spending. For decades, we have piled deficit upon deficit, mortgaging our future and our children's future for the temporary convenience of the present. To continue this long trend is to guarantee tremendous social, cultural, political, and economic upheavals….. We must act today in order to preserve tomorrow. And let there be no misunderstanding--we are going to begin to act, beginning today”

- President Ronald Reagan First Inaugural Address.
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But guess what? All this time later, we are still digging an ever-deeper hole.

arkypete wrote:I would suggest that conversations such this would best be held while taking a walk in the park.

Jim

We are free to speculate about the future no?

The thing we all agree on is the eight ball seems to say in regards to the future is "all signs point to worse".

In regards to your concern, I always did ponder why some people actually do advocate violent overthrow of the gubbermint....hell, just be patient and wait for it to collapse of its volition and then live out your Mad Max fantasies. Though my money on a post-collapse life would be more Articles of Confederation than chaos, with some states coming out vastly in better shape than others.

Hell, Texas may not even notice if Washington DC vanished.

Ferguson, MO right now. There are peaceful protests being met with violent reaction by the local police. We've militarized so many departments, despite crime having dropped over the last 40 years. This kind of reaction will become more common, even after the condemnation.

There will be a breaking point.

Just read this, in Ferguson, they are "supposed" to be removing the police, that have been "policing" the protests.

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The St. Louis County Police Department will no longer be involved in policing Ferguson, Missouri, the suburban community rocked by protests after the death of an unarmed black teenager who was shot by a police officer last week.

Rep. Lacy Clay (D-Mo.), who represents Ferguson, told Bloomberg on Thursday that Missouri Gov. Jay Nixon (D) is expected to announce the decision later today.

"The gov. just called me and he's on his way to St. Louis now to announce he's taking St. Louis County police out of the situation," he said.


The situation, already tenuous after extensive police presence that included rubber bullets, pepper spray and tear gas since Michael Brown's death last week, exploded Wednesday evening after SWAT officers roughed up and arrested two reporters inside a local McDonald's. The journalists were unharmed, but the incident highlighted the town's ramped up police presence, which has been criticized as overly militarized.

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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/1 ... 78441.html

When we have to bring in the FBI, or Coast Guard, (what have you) to de-escalate a problem, you know its all ready a gigantic Cluster F.

As part of this approach, the United States is preparing a proposal to require systemically important banks to issue bail-inable long-term debt that will enable insolvent banks to recapitalize themselves http://www.goldcore.com/goldcore_blog/U ... A_Proposal

This is proposed by the guy that is #2 in Fed. You had $500K in the savings account, for retirement? You will get back $50K, the rest being converted to some kind of bonds, with possibility to cash in 30 years.
That day is coming, and is coming fast. What kind of unrest will you see then?

Frankly, I don't think the Feds should be involved yet, and especially no one under Holder. Allow the State governor to send in the National Guard (don't get me started on that...) to recover, if needed.

I don't think they don't need military or different police. They need a group that is very obviously a civilian community organizer that the locals are familiar with to defuse the situation by reassuring the people that their concerns will be address and their behavior was/is unacceptable.

BUT, if they act out and riot, they deserve to go to jail.

From 2 years ago: http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2012/06 ... -st-louis/

MarcSpaz wrote:I don't think they don't need military or different police. They need a group that is very obviously a civilian community organizer that the locals are familiar with to defuse the situation by reassuring the people that their concerns will be address and their behavior was/is unacceptable.

BUT, if they act out and riot, they deserve to go to jail.

The looters are not from Ferguson. They came in from St Louis.

If anything, this will bring the militarized police issue to bear. Because, when they try that in a middle class suburb? Someone will get killed. And it won't be the causation, it'll be in REACTION...

Actually, there was a second Police involved shooting during the "rioting". A LEO had a rifle aimed at was is believed to be a group of peaceful, unarmed protesters and the LEO were trying to corral them up. A CHP holder thought the cop was going to open-fire on a group of unarmed people and drew his concealed weapon and got dropped by the cop.

The citizen didn't die, but local PD made good an damn sure the media didn't get info on it and did everything they could to keep it quite.

I think a lot of stuff like this is happening there, which is why they started taking reporters and media affiliates "into custody for failure to obey." Its too hard to hide evidence of your criminal activity if people are video recording your every move.

I heard about that. The police need to cool it.

It is one thing when a child has a temper tantrum. It is another thing when a parent has one.

This is not going to end well. If wiser and cooler heads do not prevail we are going to have serious problems.



On the bet. No thanks. This whole world is a tinderbox.

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The biggest problem I see with that bet is 1000 US dollars won't be worth much, if anything once that happens.

Bet still stands. Any takers?

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Side note - I, too, am not advocating insurrection in any way, shape, or form. I fear the far left is going that route. I just want peace and constructive debate, not beating old.men with crowbars and throwing chemicals on reporters.

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The reason no one is taking your bet is because part of a bet involves speculation. There is no gamble in a sure thing.