Virginia Gun Owners Forum - VGOF

wpoppert wrote:Regarding the matter of range time for federal agents, when I was an agent for NCIS we were supposed to go to the range once a quarter, but semiannually was more the norm. I was there for four years post-9/11. I have shot far more often as a private citizen than I did as a "trained professional."

dorminWS wrote:

wpoppert wrote:Regarding the matter of range time for federal agents, when I was an agent for NCIS we were supposed to go to the range once a quarter, but semiannually was more the norm. I was there for four years post-9/11. I have shot far more often as a private citizen than I did as a "trained professional."

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Did you work for Leroy Jethro Gibbs?

OakRidgeStars wrote:While we're all waiting for more ammo to appear on the shelves, here's a video of a happy bunny.



Tell the truth, don't you feel better now?

WBlacklidge wrote:I am not saying you are doing this on purpose jmichaels1984 but you are buying into the BS media. They throw out big numbers like that because it sounds shocking and drives headlines. You need to take that information and think for yourself and be logical:

2,500,000,000 / 10 = 250,000,000 a year used by DHS
200,000 = The number of employees in the DHS
250,000,000 (bullets per year) / 200,000 (number of employees)
_____
1250 rounds per year per employee.
1250(rounds per year)/365 (number of days in the year)
3.4 rounds per employee per day of year.

Ok, let's see. Last time I was asking for 2 billion rounds of normal ammo.... Let's see if 3 billion rounds of .410 and 45-70 will get them riled up again.... *evil laugh*

Reverenddel wrote:
That being said, has anyone noticed a LACK of imported ammo? What happened to Tula .22LR? I haven't seen that since before Christmas.

gunderwood wrote:

WBlacklidge wrote:I am not saying you are doing this on purpose jmichaels1984 but you are buying into the BS media. They throw out big numbers like that because it sounds shocking and drives headlines. You need to take that information and think for yourself and be logical:

2,500,000,000 / 10 = 250,000,000 a year used by DHS
200,000 = The number of employees in the DHS
250,000,000 (bullets per year) / 200,000 (number of employees)
_____
1250 rounds per year per employee.
1250(rounds per year)/365 (number of days in the year)
3.4 rounds per employee per day of year.

This math has been disproven so many times it's getting old. DHS THEMSELVES claim to only use 15M rounds a year. Not everyone is weapons qualified and of those that are, most only shoot the minimum which is waaaay less than people assume. There are a few who shoot frequently, but for most agents its no different than attending sexual harassment training. Something you do because the job demands it. Of all the people who are weapons qualified in my office I can't get any one to go shooting or shot IDPA, etc.

WBlacklidge wrote:

gunderwood wrote:

WBlacklidge wrote:I am not saying you are doing this on purpose jmichaels1984 but you are buying into the BS media. They throw out big numbers like that because it sounds shocking and drives headlines. You need to take that information and think for yourself and be logical:

2,500,000,000 / 10 = 250,000,000 a year used by DHS
200,000 = The number of employees in the DHS
250,000,000 (bullets per year) / 200,000 (number of employees)
_____
1250 rounds per year per employee.
1250(rounds per year)/365 (number of days in the year)
3.4 rounds per employee per day of year.

This math has been disproven so many times it's getting old. DHS THEMSELVES claim to only use 15M rounds a year. Not everyone is weapons qualified and of those that are, most only shoot the minimum which is waaaay less than people assume. There are a few who shoot frequently, but for most agents its no different than attending sexual harassment training. Something you do because the job demands it. Of all the people who are weapons qualified in my office I can't get any one to go shooting or shot IDPA, etc.

Not to go off my rocker again today... but you guys love to pick out only the part of my post that makes me look like an idiot and leave off the part right below it where I adjust the numbers for substantially less than the 200k employees because obviously the janitor and office administrator is not carrying.

sigh..

- 72,000 agents and officers that carry one or more firearms
- in general employees are allotted approximately 200 rounds of ammunition for qualification and training each quarter and specialized agents or teams also participate in advanced firearms training that use additional ammunition.
- DHS houses four interagency training sites that comprise the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center (FLETC). FLETC trains over 70,000 Federal, State, Local and Tribal law enforcement personnel every year
- The quantity of ammunition that DHS has procured has largely remained constant relative to the Department’s employee base since fiscal fear (FY) 2006.
- On average, over the last three fiscal years, DHS procured approximately 120 million rounds of ammunition per year of all calibers and types and fired approximately the same number of rounds per year, almost exclusively for training purposes.
- The Department has experienced only minor fluctuations in its buying patterns for ammunition since its inception. These fluctuations have been driven by the size of the employee base using ammunition in the performance of their jobs and associated training. For example, the Border Patrol has doubled in size over the last ten years, which has required a commensurate increase in the amount of ammunition required for their training, qualification, and operations. The Department’s ammunition purchases peaked in FY 2010, and have since declined in each successive fiscal year.
- Due to the fact that manufacturers can take six months to a year to deliver ammunition, DHS has a supply of ammunition on hand at a given time in order to manage training, operational posture needs, and delivery times from the manufacturers. As of April 15, 2013, this amounted to DHS having approximately 246,451,611 rounds in inventory.

Chasbo00 wrote:I don't think DHS is doing anything much differently than they have in the past with respect to ammunition procurement. The shortage is mainly the result of civilian purchases - the non availability of .22 LR is clear evidence of that.

DHS claims:

- 72,000 agents and officers that carry one or more firearms
- in general employees are allotted approximately 200 rounds of ammunition for qualification and training each quarter and specialized agents or teams also participate in advanced firearms training that use additional ammunition.
- DHS houses four interagency training sites that comprise the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center (FLETC). FLETC trains over 70,000 Federal, State, Local and Tribal law enforcement personnel every year
- The quantity of ammunition that DHS has procured has largely remained constant relative to the Department’s employee base since fiscal fear (FY) 2006.
- On average, over the last three fiscal years, DHS procured approximately 120 million rounds of ammunition per year of all calibers and types and fired approximately the same number of rounds per year, almost exclusively for training purposes.
- The Department has experienced only minor fluctuations in its buying patterns for ammunition since its inception. These fluctuations have been driven by the size of the employee base using ammunition in the performance of their jobs and associated training. For example, the Border Patrol has doubled in size over the last ten years, which has required a commensurate increase in the amount of ammunition required for their training, qualification, and operations. The Department’s ammunition purchases peaked in FY 2010, and have since declined in each successive fiscal year.
- Due to the fact that manufacturers can take six months to a year to deliver ammunition, DHS has a supply of ammunition on hand at a given time in order to manage training, operational posture needs, and delivery times from the manufacturers. As of April 15, 2013, this amounted to DHS having approximately 246,451,611 rounds in inventory.

http://www.dhs.gov/news/2013/04/25/writ ... committees

jmicheals1984 wrote:I'm sorry, but when DHS refuses to cooperate with even Congress, and not give a straight answer why they bought more ammo than the US Marines, then there is something wrong with that. I don't find it a coincidence that we can't even find .22lr, .410 and 7mm Remington ammo on the shelf and 9mm and 5.56 and 7.62x39 ammo is legendary. Also, DHS bought MRAPs. These were designed for places like Iraq not the US.