Virginia Gun Owners Forum - VGOF

The legislation governing the administration of the site could be put in place so that individuals only entered name, address and driver's license number into the search, and no weapon information. The only thing you would be creating is a database that contains people who were potentially purchasing a firearm or violating the law (unlawfully attempting to purchase a firearm). If the site only maintained the info for the "No Sale" people (done by the creating legislation), it might stop a few illegal sales. It might potentially create a few false "No Sale"s, who may need to visit with local law enforcement to clear up why it was "No Sale".

I realize many believe that the right to own firearms to be an absolute right and it is none of the state and federal government's business to know exactly what firearms you own. I won't argue against that belief. British, Canadian and Australian gun confiscations have shown that idea to be a bad one. What I do find at odds with that is the reverence some of these folks seem to have for the Concealed Carry Permit. Doesn't the Gov't believe you have the intent to own a firearm when you get a CCP? Throw the Short Barrel Rifle/ Suppressor trusts into the mix and it seems to me, too many people are giving the Gov't the info they say the Gov't has no business having.

GeneFrenkle wrote:Why is this such a "big deal"? If you are so concerned that you cannot see a concealed permit and va dl, don't sell it f2f. sell it at consignment at an ffl, sell it to a pawn broker, or pay a ffl to do it. Good Lord, this is making a mountain out of a molehill.

The key point is the Gov't has no business in one's day to day life and has no business interfering with one's private business if it's lawful.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

Agreed my concern is less that I'm selling to some felon(because the chances are slim) but more that if we don't act to suggest such changes their going to pass a bill like the one we just saw in congress and almost if not all private sales will be banned. Carpe diem.

I'd support this sort of thing 100%...for vehicle purchases in the Northern Virginia area.

I think we should institute a background check system for people who want to have children. If your background doesn't pass (IQ is a key discriminator), then you can;t have kids and must be sterilized.

How's that for an extremist view?

Jakeiscrazy wrote:

GeneFrenkle wrote:Why is this such a "big deal"? If you are so concerned that you cannot see a concealed permit and va dl, don't sell it f2f. sell it at consignment at an ffl, sell it to a pawn broker, or pay a ffl to do it. Good Lord, this is making a mountain out of a molehill.

The key point is the Gov't has no business in one's day to day life and has no business interfering with one's private business if it's lawful.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

Agreed my concern is less that I'm selling to some felon(because the chances are slim) but more that if we don't act to suggest such changes their going to pass a bill like the one we just saw in congress and almost if not all private sales will be banned. Carpe diem.

Only if folks cave in to those liberal cowards and let 'em. Besides, do you actually think they'll be satisfied with that? For how long? And given how the gov't blatantly disregards the rule of law, what makes you think whatever information they collect will be used for altruistic purposes? Their purpose nowadays is to "become too big to fail" as well as too intrusive to fail (one can probably argue that they are already "too big/intrustive to fail" already).

If you're truly that concerned about the miniscule probability after examining a DL and carry permit, go through a FFL for the F2F sale, go the consignment route, or don't sell. This really isn't a hard problem.

It's not a hard problem for the person selling the gun. It's a hard problem for the people who want control over your life and your selling of a dangerous "implement of death". This isn't about protecting yourself and ensuring that due diligence is performed prior to selling a firearm. It's about someone else making sure that bad people don't come into possession of your firearm when you decide to sell it, and the only way to do that is to implement some sort of tracking/registration scheme.

Why not just leave it to the laws that are on the books...if I sell a firearm to someone who isn't legally allowed to own a firearm, then it is they who are breaking the current laws, and if they are found in possession of said firearm, then it is they who will pay the price for their willing neglect of the law.

These laws already exist. Enforce them and be done with the issue.

Great post Rick!

Indeed, Rick. Indeed.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

GeneFrenkle wrote:

Jakeiscrazy wrote:

GeneFrenkle wrote:Why is this such a "big deal"? If you are so concerned that you cannot see a concealed permit and va dl, don't sell it f2f. sell it at consignment at an ffl, sell it to a pawn broker, or pay a ffl to do it. Good Lord, this is making a mountain out of a molehill.

The key point is the Gov't has no business in one's day to day life and has no business interfering with one's private business if it's lawful.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

Agreed my concern is less that I'm selling to some felon(because the chances are slim) but more that if we don't act to suggest such changes their going to pass a bill like the one we just saw in congress and almost if not all private sales will be banned. Carpe diem.

Only if folks cave in to those liberal cowards and let 'em. Besides, do you actually think they'll be satisfied with that? For how long? And given how the gov't blatantly disregards the rule of law, what makes you think whatever information they collect will be used for altruistic purposes? Their purpose nowadays is to "become too big to fail" as well as too intrusive to fail (one can probably argue that they are already "too big/intrustive to fail" already).

If you're truly that concerned about the miniscule probability after examining a DL and carry permit, go through a FFL for the F2F sale, go the consignment route, or don't sell. This really isn't a hard problem.

No I definitely think they'll call it "just a start" but I think that most of America will be satisfied with it. Everyone wins, gun owners get some kind of firearm freedom in return, the liberals get to champion it as "progress" and America feels like the NRA cares blah blah blah. And by all means fight it until the time you realize its unenviable and only then give the compromise but if you never give it then you'll loss out completely.

Jakeiscrazy wrote:Everyone wins, gun owners get some kind of firearm freedom in return, the liberals get to champion it as "progress" and America feels like the NRA cares blah blah blah. And by all means fight it until the time you realize its unenviable and only then give the compromise but if you never give it then you'll loss out completely.

Allowing "them" to have a little here and there and calling it "Progress" is what's gotten us into this entire situation to begin with. We've sat quietly...living our own lives thinking "Oh - that's just the crazies in California - it doesn't really affect me". But now, it's spread all over every corner of our country and it's affecting EVERYONE. We can't allow "them" to have another inch, because we're no longer at the point of giving them a little here and a little there...we're at the point of trying to SAVE a little here and a little there!

NO Compromises ,,Period!

Jakeiscrazy wrote: No I definitely think they'll call it "just a start" but I think that most of America will be satisfied with it. Everyone wins, gun owners get some kind of firearm freedom in return, the liberals get to champion it as "progress" and America feels like the NRA cares blah blah blah. And by all means fight it until the time you realize its unenviable and only then give the compromise but if you never give it then you'll loss out completely.

That, my friend, is called "placation". Who cares if they get upset or make noise? It's time we get upset and make noise. I'm tired of their nonsense and cowardice. I stand with my Constitutions - Federal _and_ State (States rights, remember?). I'm tired of bullies.

A database sufficient to perform the check that is mandatory, even without weapon identification, is practically firearm registration. To prevent the database being misused for ID fraud, the sellers info will have to recorded as well. Even in the simplest case, the government can keep track of how many requests were made. They may not know that you have 3 ARs and 5 handguns, but if there were 17 purchase requests and 5 sale requests, you have 12 firearms to confiscate. Don't turn exactly 12 over when the confiscation comes (and it always has eventually) and you're in trouble. If history is any example, any loopholes for family, etc. which allow for non-BC sales will be closed with time.

If you have a mandatory BC system, you have firearm registration. The only conceptual system which would provide a BC like functionality without firearm registration is to register firearm owners and give them an ID which can be verified by peers (think crypto technology like Bitcoin). Of course, even then you have defacto firearm owner registration and the government ultimately is able to deny anyone it wants without due process (e.g. Maryland CC permits).

There's no fancy way around it, either the government has the power to practically (and eventually will) revoke the 2nd in it's entirety, or there are no mandatory BC/sale requirements on firearms. I vote for liberty and the US Constitution, so no mistake where I fall.

MarcSpaz wrote:If you ever bought a new gun ever or purchased ammo using a credit card... the government has a record that you own (or have owned) a gun... period. You're on the list. LOL Boycotting stuff like this doesn't help you stay anonymous.

Yes, and that is a clear violation of the 4th Amendment, but when has the Constitution ever stopped the government or DHS whom you work for? Itemizing and searching or tracking via a list of my personal property and financial transactions without probable cause presented to a competent authority to obtain a warrant...ya, that's tyranny.

I agree. It's pretty disgusting to be honest. I know my income is coming from them, but I am not a fan... I have said repeatedly that the whole agency should be disbanded. I can't really see the value added as a citizen.