handgun safety opinions needed

[GeneFrenkle]

@gumderwood - the op (You're right, Welcome!), asked for opinions about inebriation, firearms, and the reasonableness of the Wifely response. one should never handle firearms when drunk. one should not play in that continuum at all particularly considering the kind of society and "popular" view towards firearms. Of course other factors can be just as bad if not worse, but those are irrelevant given the framing of the op's inquiry for opinions.

blanket statements like that are useful as an absolute metric aginst which a current situation can be vetted. It is the amount of deflection from the rule and ome's comfort level that is the guide to acceptable risk. An example of this could be violating a speed limit. The blanket rule is do not speed. The more one violates the speed limit, the higher the risk and greater the consequences. Acceptable risk could be rushing to the hospital 1 mile away for a life threatening emergency, being held hostage, etc, yadda yadda yadda. (of course analogies fall apart at some level, so let's not be pendantic, brother lol)

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

[abexgunenthusiast]

I appreciate all the discussion and opinions. I don't consider myself stupid or irresponsible, but I definitely know that I can do stupid and irresponsible things...

I agree that it was not the best judgement. I guess what I was after was a little confirmation that the firearm is not an inherently evil device that is going to kill whole families on its own without deliberate user input, and that the actual thing I did was not risky or dangerous on its own. I tried to show the wife how the handgun functioned and that what I did rendered it unloaded and unfireable, which was in fact the purpose of doing it in the first place, but to no avail. Again, I totally agree it would have been better to wait until the morning, but it was fresh on my mind because of the recent story about the accidental discharge. In my thought process, it was the same thing as going out and turning on the car to see if I had gas to get to work the next day: better to not even touch a vehicle after drinking, but I wasn't going to drive anywhere and is it really that big a deal?

Thanks again for the feedback. I will graciously accept the ruling of the committee and move on from here.

Two thoughts on your forum:

1. It is very noticeable how respectful and thoughtful the people posting on this site are. Where are the trolls? Refreshing to see....
2. I try hard not to be too paranoid, but is it a little silly for a website such as this, in a political/government atmosphere such as this, to casually ask you to describe your "arsenal" when you register?

Anyways, anyone in the market for an XD .40?

[Swampman]

+4 - guess there is no need to quote it again? One drink disqualifies me from my gun locker. Period.

[Palladin]

...Two thoughts on your forum:

1. It is very noticeable how respectful and thoughtful the people posting on this site are. Where are the trolls? Refreshing to see....
2. I try hard not to be too paranoid, but is it a little silly for a website such as this, in a political/government atmosphere such as this, to casually ask you to describe your "arsenal" when you register?

Anyways, anyone in the market for an XD .40?

It's the way our mamas raised us. We can't hep it. And we have etiquette classes Tues and Thurs nites for the come heres. As for the trolls, well, Rick shot two of them back in '11, and we haven't seen any since then...

The arsenal list. Most of us can't afford guns, (they are dangerous anyway), but we love seeing other peoples guns and talking about them. There were a few of us that have had guns in the past, but have had real bad luck hanging onto them with water an boats an the like.

Any how, welcome to the VGOF.

Pull up a chair and stay a while.

[Jakeiscrazy]

Two thoughts on your forum:

1. It is very noticeable how respectful and thoughtful the people posting on this site are. Where are the trolls? Refreshing to see....
2. I try hard not to be too paranoid, but is it a little silly for a website such as this, in a political/government atmosphere such as this, to casually ask you to describe your "arsenal" when you register?

Anyways, anyone in the market for an XD .40?

1.The trolls come and get we get them now and again but for the most part its peaceful discourse without much trolling. Surprising(and one of the best things) about this forum is that its lightly moderated. It's rare to see threads locked even rarer to see them deleted(expect spam of course).

2 Haha your not the only one that thinks that! Many people put something there like "lost in a tragic boating accident." Its voluntary so for the worrying kind just leave it blank.

[FiremanBob]

@genfrenkle: There is a difference that weakens the speeding analogy. The speed limit laws, created by government bureaucrats, are not based on reasonable cause-and-effect for safety in modern cars on modern roads and therefore do not deserve absolute respect. But the rules of safe gun handling, which are the distillation of centuries of experience and codified by genuine experts in the field, are both reasonable and effective and do deserve respect.

[GeneFrenkle]

@bob, agreed and the analogy was qualified by the parenthetical phrase at the end of the post.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

[gunderwood]

@gumderwood - the op (You're right, Welcome!), asked for opinions about inebriation, firearms, and the reasonableness of the Wifely response. one should never handle firearms when drunk. one should not play in that continuum at all particularly considering the kind of society and "popular" view towards firearms. Of course other factors can be just as bad if not worse, but those are irrelevant given the framing of the op's inquiry for opinions.

blanket statements like that are useful as an absolute metric aginst which a current situation can be vetted. It is the amount of deflection from the rule and ome's comfort level that is the guide to acceptable risk. An example of this could be violating a speed limit. The blanket rule is do not speed. The more one violates the speed limit, the higher the risk and greater the consequences. Acceptable risk could be rushing to the hospital 1 mile away for a life threatening emergency, being held hostage, etc, yadda yadda yadda. (of course analogies fall apart at some level, so let's not be pendantic, brother lol)

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

So what qualifies as drunk in your opinion? BAC 0.08 or higher per the governments driving standard? Presumably because you said they don't mix at all, any BAC above 0 and you shouldn't be handling firearms. Interesting, do you lock your firearms away every time you eat anything fermented? Alcohol is basically a by product of fermentation and it's in a lot of things. Most people simply aren't aware of it because it generally doesn't go over the government threshold for alcohol sales. I.e. it contains alcohol, but isn't regulated as such. Which brings us to the next topic...

How long after consuming alcohol do you wait? 5mins, 5hrs, 1day, never handle another firearm period? Let me guess, you're going to say something along the lines of it depends or when you're not drunk.

The point is that your hard and fast rule is arbitrary, just like the BAC or speed limit. FYI, speed limits have nothing to do with safety. They were put in place to save gas, not lives. As you'd expect any speed greater than 0 for all vehicles has some risk of accidents and death. The original 55MPH was chosen by government bureaucrats as an arbitrary balance between gasoline usage and the other factors of travel. The same is true of the BAC. You can't tell me there is any practical difference between 0.0800000 BAC and 0.07999999 BAC, yet strictly speaking one is legal and the other is not. The standard is arbitrary.

So when you boil it down, if you drank any alcohol at any time and also handled a firearm at any time, you're making a judgement call and not following your hard and fast rule. You're following an arbitrary standard, while presuming you have a hard and fast rule.

[GeneFrenkle]

since you asked, i very infrequently drink alcohol, and on the occasion i do, one or two beers/margaritas over the course of an afternoon and evening. My carry is secured beforehand, and won't be touched until the next day.

the discussion is bordering on the absurd given that even your example of 0.08 will have differing effects on different people based upon various physiological differences in liver function like alcohol dehydrogenase production, ethnic background, etc. that stuff even varies by day for the same individual and can change over the course of a lifetime. so, you are correct in that a number ofvfactors are subjective.

even the law is based upon arbitrary measures. the applicability (nullification?) of those measures/laws are what matters and requires judgement and consideration of a "gold standard" as i have been attempting to convey in the prior posts. geesh, even va law says you cannot drink while (concealed) carrying.

if you feel comfortable drinking a fifth and messing with a loaded gun, that's your business. if something bad happens and negatively impacts me or my loved ones, there will be issues. consequence for action. imo, one should not occur with the other. your opinion seems to differ - enjoy, you have that freedom to do so and responsibility for the consequences.

overall, the op asked for an opinion and it was given. i have no expectations for anyone to accept it. take it for what it is - an opinion based upon the paragraph description of a situation.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

[grumpyMSG]

Situation: Went out on a Saturday night partying with friends. Someone told the story of their brother having an accidental discharge while cleaning his handgun. With the story in mind, I got back home, admittedly intoxicated, and took my .40 out from the bedside table, released the magazine and worked the slide a few times to ensure there was not a chambered round and that it was adequately oiled. My wife saw this and immediately adamantly rebuked me for playing with guns after I was drinking.

Arguing over the definition of drunk, intoxicated, inebriated, sloshed, sh!+ faced is pretty pointless. the original poster said he was "admittedly intoxicated", that term usually implies/infers (I can never remember which word is correct, a grammar nazi can correct me) some level of impairment. Why not just let it go?

[gunderwood]

since you asked, i very infrequently drink alcohol, and on the occasion i do, one or two beers/margaritas over the course of an afternoon and evening. My carry is secured beforehand, and won't be touched until the next day.

the discussion is bordering on the absurd given that even your example of 0.08 will have differing effects on different people based upon various physiological differences in liver function like alcohol dehydrogenase production, ethnic background, etc. that stuff even varies by day for the same individual and can change over the course of a lifetime. so, you are correct in that a number ofvfactors are subjective.

even the law is based upon arbitrary measures. the applicability (nullification?) of those measures/laws are what matters and requires judgement and consideration of a "gold standard" as i have been attempting to convey in the prior posts. geesh, even va law says you cannot drink while (concealed) carrying.

if you feel comfortable drinking a fifth and messing with a loaded gun, that's your business. if something bad happens and negatively impacts me or my loved ones, there will be issues. consequence for action. imo, one should not occur with the other. your opinion seems to differ - enjoy, you have that freedom to do so and responsibility for the consequences.

overall, the op asked for an opinion and it was given. i have no expectations for anyone to accept it. take it for what it is - an opinion based upon the paragraph description of a situation.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

VA law does prohibit concealed, but not open. You can't be drunk in either case though; presumably the same standards as driving apply. I personally only drink one good beer and on occasion two.

As a matter of pride, I feed my best rifles only 182 proof isopropyl alcohol. That's right, nothing but Walmart's finest to make those cold bore shots spot on! They like it so much they'll actually start to sing a sweet melody about the virtues of cleanliness.

Did you know that the DoD has even stricter rules regarding driving while "drunk." Depends on the CO, but you can actually get a DUI with a BAC of ZERO because they have another arbitrary rule which states that you can't operate a government vehicle within 8hrs of having any alcohol.

A responsible and free people have no need or use for such rules. The problem is that a long time ago we forgot how to be that. However, reality hasn't changed.

[gunderwood]

Situation: Went out on a Saturday night partying with friends. Someone told the story of their brother having an accidental discharge while cleaning his handgun. With the story in mind, I got back home, admittedly intoxicated, and took my .40 out from the bedside table, released the magazine and worked the slide a few times to ensure there was not a chambered round and that it was adequately oiled. My wife saw this and immediately adamantly rebuked me for playing with guns after I was drinking.

Arguing over the definition of drunk, intoxicated, inebriated, sloshed, sh!+ faced is pretty pointless. the original poster said he was "admittedly intoxicated", that term usually implies/infers (I can never remember which word is correct, a grammar nazi can correct me) some level of impairment. Why not just let it go?

You missed the point.

[Palladin]

I like the points presented here. I've had these kinds of conversations with my older kids on multiple occasions... talking about laws, responsibility, knowing ones limits - even going so far as to play a favorite video game of our while drinking to illustrate what goes down. I'm so-so and my son is very good at the game, but after the first beer for each of us, the point standings were way off for what were capable of. And the second beer? The bots handed our asses to us on a platter. An awesome lesson learned in the safety of our home.

So gunderwood's points are quite valid. Am I going to fail to do my duty and protect my family during a home invasion just because I may have had one, two or three beers just prior to the invasion? Heck no. But I won't tempt fate by handling or cycling the weapon while under the influence unless necessity requires it. Did the OP commit a crime? Nope. No harm, no foul. Does the OP have a golden opportunity to strengthen his relationship with his wife and raise her estimation of him as a self-governed man? Yep.

The 16 year old in NoVa is dead because he made several bad judgement calls. OP gets a second chance. Life is what you make of it.

ps - Son went around for several days yelling " "I'm Dizzy - who're you?!" SPLAT!"

[downzero]

I prefer the term "negligent discharge". I don't believe in accidental discharge. This guy did not clear his firearm properly before starting to clean it, that's not an accident, that's negligence. I don't understand why you felt the need to "unload" your home protection firearm after hearing a story about someone who can't remember firearms safety 101. I don't care if you are the most experienced gun handler in the world,alcohol can impair your thought process and make you negligent as well. In fact I think your feeling the need to "unload" your gun when impaired is proof of it. Your wife is right IMHO, and you have no case.