Virginia Gun Owners Forum - VGOF

dorminWS wrote:And put some quotas on entry for citizenship, just as we did with many other ethnic groups in the last century or more. There is absolutely nothing wrong with protecting our national heritage in this manner.

Kreutz wrote:The GOP has never been a "whites only" party. The GOP has been a "rich whites only party" for the last 50 years. Illegal labor fits very nicely into the GOP backers need for cheap tax free exploitable labor, much as the Democrats backers want more illegals for their social reengineering and cementing of a welfare state.

In any event the white middle and working class becomes further disenfranchised. Professional class whites have been feeling the pinch over the last few years too.

dorminWS wrote:

CowboyT wrote:
The proper place to direct that anger is at the corporate managers who do the hiring. They need to get thrown in jail personally, including the top bosses, and the companies need to get very stiff fines. When the top bosses find themselves behind bars and their companies fined out the wazoo, that'll put a big, fat damper on the illegal hiring. And that will put a big damper on the illegal immigration.

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That sounds good and I agree with it in principal. But in practice it is almost certain to be unwieldy, unworkable, and unfair - at least to a significant extent. Like the "illegals" side of the analysis, it just ain't that simple.

(1) To begin with, the "top bosses" are almost never the people who do the actual hiring.
(2) In addition to that, it is almost impossible to assure that you haven't hired an illegal - even if you are trying your best not to.
(3) It is also a vastly complicating fact that it is very very hard to fill the kind of menial, hard-labor jobs that often are done by these people with citizens of this country. Most of that kind of job goes begging. The conventional wisdom is that it is too easy to get on welfare or some other form of assistance to take a job involving hard work. The old-world honor/work ethic mindset you refer to probably explains why Hispanics will take those jobs and do them.

The bottom line is that our economy NEEDS those people as laborers. I say let them come in, but document them, give them a residency and work permit, let them work and pay some taxes, but do not let them become citizens just by sneaking across the border and procreating. And put some quotas on entry for citizenship, just as we did with many other ethnic groups in the last century or more. There is absolutely nothing wrong with protecting our national heritage in this manner.

What I don't understand is why this is so difficult to get done. Only explanation is just what has already been observed: Liberals want to use them to stuff ballot boxes and/or steal elections.

ShotgunBlast wrote:And having an easy path to citizenship turns those illegals into legal citizens, but for whatever reason the GOP doesn't want an easy path to citizenship.

Kreutz wrote:The GOP has never been a "whites only" party. The GOP has been a "rich whites only party" for the last 50 years. Illegal labor fits very nicely into the GOP backers need for cheap tax free exploitable labor, much as the Democrats backers want more illegals for their social reengineering and cementing of a welfare state.

In any event the white middle and working class becomes further disenfranchised. Professional class whites have been feeling the pinch over the last few years too.

gunderwood wrote:Which is why neither party is at all interested in actually resolving the problem. IMHO, turning the boarders into a militarized zone that North Korea and Iran would be proud of isn't a solution either. Besides, walls, fences, and intrusive searches work both ways...they keep some people out, but they keep us all in!

Edit: After the lamenting over the last election, even Republicans should now understand that it's not infeasible that they may want to quietly and quickly exit a country to avoid the persecutions.

gunderwood wrote:

ShotgunBlast wrote:And having an easy path to citizenship turns those illegals into legal citizens, but for whatever reason the GOP doesn't want an easy path to citizenship.

Citizenship should be hard (you should live here a long time to understand the culture and our form of government before earning the right to help determine its way forward), but it's crazy about the legal work laws. Again, they all exist for the collection of taxes and allocation of free stuff.

Kreutz wrote:

gunderwood wrote:Which is why neither party is at all interested in actually resolving the problem. IMHO, turning the boarders into a militarized zone that North Korea and Iran would be proud of isn't a solution either. Besides, walls, fences, and intrusive searches work both ways...they keep some people out, but they keep us all in!

Edit: After the lamenting over the last election, even Republicans should now understand that it's not infeasible that they may want to quietly and quickly exit a country to avoid the persecutions.

Both have much to gain from publicly decrying illegals but doing nothing about them.

I used to thinka militarized border was a godo idea until I saw that primary debate when Ron Paul mentioned the fences work both ways and can keep people in. Never thought of it that way before despite it being a very basic observation.