Virginia Gun Owners Forum - VGOF

Hi-ho, hi-ho, it's off to vote I go...

Jakeiscrazy wrote:One thing's for sure there will be a liberal in the White House!

I'm voting third party.

+1 Jake aint crazy.

Arrived at my humble little polling place at 5:50am and found the line wrapped around the building and into the parking lot next door. Spent 70 minutes freezing my jimmies off in line to cast my vote.

Wish I could go back and do it all over again.

It did remind me of something. But what could it be...

Rich wrote:

Jakeiscrazy wrote:One thing's for sure there will be a liberal in the White House!

I'm voting third party.

+1 Jake aint crazy.

If you guys both do that in this critical swing state, you are aware that what you're really doing is voting for Obama.

And that isn't crazy?

Did my duty this morning on the way to work.

More people than normal at the polls, but no wait (one of the benefits of a small town). Sort of strange. Everybody seemed subdued and very serious. Sort of an air of grim determination seemed to be hanging over the polls like a dark cloud. Of course, thanks to Obama's war on coal, I think we'll see the strongest republican vote in the history of the SW VA coalfields. Obama is absolutely hated here by a very strong majority. One old timer told me he "wouldn't p!ss down Obama's throat if'n his damn GUTS was on fire". This came from an old-time "yaller-dawg democrat" who never cast a non-democrat vote in his life.

But of course the fate of Virginia's electoral votes will be determined by Northern and Tidewater Virginia. But if it is very close out there, perhaps the @ss-kickin' I think Obama is going to get up here in the hills might actually matter.

FiremanBob wrote:If you guys both do that in this critical swing state, you are aware that what you're really doing is voting for Obama.

And that isn't crazy?

No, you're voting for whoever you voted for. How does voting for Johnson or Goode magically add one more vote for Obama?

Stop the stranglehold - 5% of the popular vote ends the two-party abuse & allows third party candidates equal ballot access. #bethefivepercent

Kreutz wrote:

FiremanBob wrote:If you guys both do that in this critical swing state, you are aware that what you're really doing is voting for Obama.

And that isn't crazy?

No, you're voting for whoever you voted for. How does voting for Johnson or Goode magically add one more vote for Obama?

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Bullsh!t, Kreutz. Ain't no magic to it, and you know it. If you vote for Johnson or Goode and Virginia's electoral votes go to Obama by 1 vote; thereby throwing the election to Obama, Your symbolic protest vote changed the course of history - but not in a good way. If you cast your vote for one of the two candidates with a reasonable chance of actually getting elected, changing that vote from one to the other actually produces a "swing" of TWO votes: Candidate A -1, candidate B +1. I guess that's the thinking behand the statement. It's like having a brand-new 1911 pistol and throwing it into the ocean because it has the wrong color bullets in it.

Heh

dorminWS wrote:
Bullsh!t, Kreutz. Ain't no magic to it, and you know it. If you vote for Johnson or Goode and Virginia's electoral votes go to Obama by 1 vote; thereby throwing the election to Obama, Your symbolic protest vote changed the course of history - but not in a good way. If you cast your vote for one of the two candidates with a reasonable chance of actually getting elected, changing that vote from one to the other actually produces a "swing" of TWO votes: Candidate A -1, candidate B +1. I guess that's the thinking behand the statement. It's like having a brand-new 1911 pistol and throwing it into the ocean because it has the wrong color bullets in it.

I concur! If you go Goode or Johnson, don't bitch when Obama wins.

SpanishInquisition wrote:

dorminWS wrote:
Bullsh!t, Kreutz. Ain't no magic to it, and you know it. If you vote for Johnson or Goode and Virginia's electoral votes go to Obama by 1 vote; thereby throwing the election to Obama, Your symbolic protest vote changed the course of history - but not in a good way. If you cast your vote for one of the two candidates with a reasonable chance of actually getting elected, changing that vote from one to the other actually produces a "swing" of TWO votes: Candidate A -1, candidate B +1. I guess that's the thinking behand the statement. It's like having a brand-new 1911 pistol and throwing it into the ocean because it has the wrong color bullets in it.

I concur! If you go Goode or Johnson, don't bitch when Obama wins.

Not sure where you get a two vote "swing" from unless you tell a pollster you're voting for Candidate A but you actually vote for Candidate B. I don't know too many people that do that unless they're messing with the pollster. And even then, the "swing" is all mental and speculative since nothing you say matters until you actually cast your vote.

Can't speak for Goode supporters, but the Libertarian party is already looking at 2016. 5% national turnout for Johnson sets the Libertarians up in a lot better position when it comes to getting on state ballots and access to funding. No spending time and money fighting the GOP in a half a dozen states to stay on the ballot even though they had more than enough signatures to qualify. Getting access to more than just a few million dollars to go head to head with candidates that are spending a billion each. A vote for Johnson means you're willing to put up with whoever wins so Libertarians can continue to make inroads against the two-party duopoly in the next election cycle.

Voted, my husband voted, my family in va beach voted, my friends in Roanoke voted....done all I can do.

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ShotgunBlast wrote:
Not sure where you get a two vote "swing" from unless you tell a pollster you're voting for Candidate A but you actually vote for Candidate B. I don't know too many people that do that unless they're messing with the pollster. And even then, the "swing" is all mental and speculative since nothing you say matters until you actually cast your vote..

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OK, let's say there are 10 voters. If 5 vote for R and 5 vote for O, then R and O each have 5 votes. But if one voter changes his vote from O to R, then R has 6 votes and O has 4. R doesn't wind up 1 vote ahead; he winds up 2 votes ahead. Hence the concept of "swing"; and it is, as this example shows, not imaginary, "mental" or "speculative", but very real. As real as arithmetic, in fact.

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ShotgunBlast wrote: A vote for Johnson means you're willing to put up with whoever wins so Libertarians can continue to make inroads against the two-party duopoly in the next election cycle.

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Well, it's your vote and it's a free country. My own opinion would be that it is a damned high price to pay for little or no tangible results.

No use trying to explain stuff like this. Like a lot of other things, if you don't see it, you won't see it till you're ready to see it (or it smacks you in the face hard enough you stop to think about it.)

Just wasting time.

I do agree, though that anyone who voted for someone with no chance of getting elected has no good reason to complain when the jerk they could have stopped from being elected/re-elected starts messing with their present and their future.

Did my duty. Voted, purchase of rounds and a new P556 completed.
All in all, felt like a very patriotic day.

dorminWS wrote:

ShotgunBlast wrote:
Not sure where you get a two vote "swing" from unless you tell a pollster you're voting for Candidate A but you actually vote for Candidate B. I don't know too many people that do that unless they're messing with the pollster. And even then, the "swing" is all mental and speculative since nothing you say matters until you actually cast your vote..

..........................................

OK, let's say there are 10 voters. If 5 vote for R and 5 vote for O, then R and O each have 5 votes. But if one voter changes his vote from O to R, then R has 6 votes and O has 4. R doesn't wind up 1 vote ahead; he winds up 2 votes ahead. Hence the concept of "swing"; and it is, as this example shows, not imaginary, "mental" or "speculative", but very real. As real as arithmetic, in fact.

OK, I gotcha. I thought it was more mental and speculative because it's tough to think about without knowing all the votes. I think you and Kreutz are correct, you're just looking at it from different perpsectives. Kreutz is looking at it in the present while votes are being cast without knowing what all of the other votes are. In that regard the numbers for each candidate can only go +1 for every vote cast. Your perspective seems a little more after-the-fact "what if this happened instead?" when you think about it, but I agree that the math works.

I think adding multiple candidates to the ballot also helps mitigate the swing for the primary candidates. For your 10 voters voting 4 for R, 4 for O, and 2 for J, you'd still have that two vote swing if it changed to 5 for R, 4 for O, and 1 for J but between R and O it would just be a 1 vote difference.

We have five people to choose from this year in Va. Have we spent more time discussing this swing than what it's worth? Guess we'll find out tomorrow.

You guys should know better than to use reason when Kreutz is trolling. Let his comment have the obscurity it deserves.

dorminWS wrote:OK, let's say there are 10 voters. If 5 vote for R and 5 vote for O, then R and O each have 5 votes. But if one voter changes his vote from O to R, then R has 6 votes and O has 4. R doesn't wind up 1 vote ahead; he winds up 2 votes ahead. Hence the concept of "swing"; and it is, as this example shows, not imaginary, "mental" or "speculative", but very real. As real as arithmetic, in fact.

Republicans do seem to have problems with math this cycle....

I vote for Goode or Johnson

Net gain for Obama 0

Net gain for Romney 0

Net gain for Goode/Johnson +1

Notice the Obama one stood at 0? Tahts because a vote for Goode or Johnson is nt a vote for Obama, as there is no transmutative alchemy at work here.

Well, it's your vote and it's a free country. My own opinion would be that it is a damned high price to pay for little or no tangible results.

Well, its your conscience, damn shame yours isnt worth anything to you.

Sorry, gonna have to agree with Kreutz. If you vote for Obama, that's a net gain of 1 for Obama. Ditto Romney, Goode, Johnson, and that crazy Green candidate.

FiremanBob wrote:You guys should know better than to use reason when Kreutz is trolling. Let his comment have the obscurity it deserves.

Mmm, yes. Ignore the temptation of independent critical thinking...just vote Republican.......it will get better this time....for real, we promise, not like last time..or the time before that, or that other time...eh....just don't think. Ever.

Lemme ask you something, how does blind obedience to your party actually help it in the long run? Because for the last 40 years the GOP has been the Democrat-lite party, I wonder why?

Because its members are easily intimidated into reflexively picking (R) on election days irregardless of whatever pile of crap they put on there?

Nah, that can't be it. Don't be trolling.

The fact MITT FCKIN ROMNEY is the new Savior (PRAISE JOSEPH SMITH AND HIS UNDERAGED WIVES!!) proves my point.

The bar hasnt fallen; its crashed through the floor.