Virginia Gun Owners Forum - VGOF

Jakeiscrazy wrote:In regards to the toe thing: The gun when resting on the toe it broken down correct? So it is in a no fireable state. Would have a problem with someone pointing a barrel removed from a pistol at you? No of course not you know that there is no set of circumstances that would allow it to fire. Same applies to a shotgun in its broken open state. It's just a barrel separate from it's firing components, unfireable.

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Jake,

Chasbo00's post is 100% on, and the only thing I'd add is that even if the gun is "unfireable", you are still cultivating the HABIT of resting a shotgun muzzle on your toe. Muscle memory being what it is, I think it is very clear this creates a very real possiblity that once you have that habit, you are likely to unthinkingly do it with a loaded gun. If you don't think that's true, just look around you anywhere, anytime at all the folks that pick their noses at red lights and scratch their @sses in public..............

I got somewhat interested in this shotgun toe resting thing and did some research. Here is a brief summary of what I found:

- It's still a common practice for skeet, trap and sporting clay shooters to rest their shotgun muzzles on their toes.
-- The American Trap Association discourages the practice, but does not prohibit it
-- The National Skeet Shooting Association has no position on the practice that I can find.

- 4h, High Schools and some other clay target groups specifically prohibit the practice

- Some clay target ranges prohibit the practice, but they appear to be in the minority

- There is a product that goes on the ground instead of your foot:
http://www.shootinggunbuddy.com/

My personal opinion is that the associations and sanctioning bodies for clay target shooting should formally prohibit this practice and make it a shooter disqualifying offense for registered target events and tournaments.

Well, that's better than using the "brogan rest", I guess, but I submit that resting a shotgun muzzle-down on the ground is a bad practice even if it is broken down and even if you DO have a "muzzle gun buddy". If you discharge a shotgun with the muzzle down against the ground or a plastic disc, there is a possibility you will damage the gun due to backpressure. And it goes without saying that damage to the gun carries the risk of injury to the gunner. If you cultivate that habit while shooting at crockery, you are setting yourself up to forget and do it in a muddy field at a dove or goose hunt; with possibly catastrophic consequences. What the HELL is wrong with exercising good muzzle-control all the times - whether you are shooting birds or dinnerware? There just ain't NO way to put a positive spin on grounding the muzzle of a shotgun - whether it's on the ground, a plastic disc, or your foot. So I agree; the practice should be banned.

Somewhere in my accumulated paraphernalia I've got a doodad I had made when I was doing a lot of target shooting and dove hunting. It is a 3/4" steel rod with a "trident" on one end to push into the ground with your foot and a u-shaped hook at about 36” off the ground on the top to lean your gun barrel into along with a wire box behind the hook that would hold a box of 12-gauge shells. It was handy for target shooting when you needed to put your gun down and mess around with a target thrower, but I wasn’t even comfortable leaning a shotgun up in this fairly secure manner. And for hunting it was just something else to carry. If you're hunting you need to be holding your gun at all times in a safe and ready manner - period.

If toe resting were made a disqualifying offense, I'm pretty sure two things would happen. - 1) Clay shooters would stop doing it, and 2) new products would appear that keep the muzzle off the ground as well as the shooters' toes.

The clay shooting community has a culture that treats unloaded shotguns differently from loaded ones. We can disagree with this, but it's a fact. This culture is not going to change until the associations and sanctioning bodies force the change. Muzzle discipline (lack of really) is pretty shocking at most clay target ranges - muzzle toe resting is only part of the problem.