Looks like the Prez owns your stuff

[tursiops]

By the way, this started with the Act in 1950, under President Truman, and has had a number of Executive Orders delegating authorities. This one from Obama appears to be mostly an edit of one in 1994 from Clinton, updated to include Homeland Security.

The Clinton E.O., 12919, has Dormouse's favorite phrase in it, as Section 102, Policy. It is word-for-word the same as Obama's E.O.

The Clinton E.O. was mostly an amalgamation and replacement of 13 previous E.O.'s extending back to 1939, all of which delegated some kind of Presidential authority to some department or agency.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

All of which proves exactly WHAT, turnips?

Maybe it means that less crap ought to be dumped on Obama (for this one) and more on Truman and Congress.

I'm kind of pleased that such delegation of authorities are being thought about in (relative) peacetime, instead of in the flurry of the moment should something happen. That's how we got the Patriot Act.

[ratherfish]

Once again obama is responsable for NOTHING! Not even his own E.O.'s!

Maybe we'd better kick the irresponsable idiot out?

[dorminWS]

@ turnips:

I guess that's as good an excuse as any for you to apologize for Obama.

Back in Truman's day, with WWII so recent and Korea heating up, I'm sure the whole thing was seen as an emergency measure to cope with the aftermath of a potential nuclear exchange. And historically, Governments and Presidents have temporarily trampled on civil rights in the name of coping with National emergencies; with the expectation (and the reality, for the most part) that when emergencies passed the government would back off on intrusive, oppressive measures that exceeded its express constitutional limits. But as our government has over time become more and more overreaching and power-hungry, and less and less competent, and in view of the fact that NO government program or bureaucracy EVER goes away even if it is ineffective or no longer needed, these measures have become more dangerous to personal liberties. In the here and now, I submit that this is massive overkill and can come to no good. There is no need to be doing such things in advance. The Patriot Act was a contemporaneous response, and it was also an Act of Congress. Why should they work overtime and in advance, except to put the mechanism in place for yet another power grab?

[ratherfish]

The patriot act data collection capabilities are a drop in the bucket compared to Obamacare.

[Kreutz]

The "jump" is when you assume that that Mr. Obama's saying it makes it so. It doesn't.

No, the military and their surrogates the civilian police force will make it so.

Thats their duty and all.

Just like the government's then doing it doesn't make it right. It isn't.
The fact that the government may interfere with your right to property doesn't mean you don't have them and they own everything.

Please do not confuse my statements with how I think things should be. I normally state things how (to me at least) they actually are.

I'm OK with government as a basic watchdog of the people by the people for the people. Not an all consuming Cerberus, which I think it will be in my lifetime and I think this one more step towards making it a reality.

And that WWII order on the Japanese-Americans has been decried far and wide as an abuse of human and constitutional rights for decades.

Yet it was still done. Because a President said so.

Why am I more unnerved by this than you? Our roles are reversed here.

In my book, when someone interferes with your rights, you don't meekly cede them to the usurper and tell yourself you must never have had them; you DEFEND them. If we lose that, we have truly lost what it means to be an American. We will have lost the legacy of the founding fathers.

Thats the 15.4 trillion dollar question. How many share this view and will act on it?

I'm like most people in I'll go along to get along, but the idea of fighting against the psychopaths running this show makes me think "better a living coward than a brave corpse" sounds pretty damned smart.

My plan is to listen to Evola (usually a good idea anyway) and just ride the damned tiger.

[CCFan]

Take it up with Congress for something they didn't vote on or pass?? An Executive Order be definition bypasses Congress. Correct?

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

No.
Especially when the E.O. is explicitly an implementation of a law. Congress makes the laws, not the President.

You guys want to blame the administration for everything wrong with the government, especially the budget. Hey, Congress passes out the money, not the President.

Maybe you actually mean Congress when you gripe about the administration, but I think you are griping about the President when you say administration. Most of your gripes ought to be about Congress.

So quote me what "law" was passed, voted on by Congress, and implemented by this EO, as you state it happens? An executive order is not signing existing law into effect, it's the creation and implementation with a stroke of the pen:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_order
http://www.thisnation.com/question/040.html

Indeed, under most people's understanding of our Republic, Congress *should* make the laws - EO's bypass Congress, which is why so many people disdain them - and rightfully so. I'm not a fan of the EO's that Bush signed, either, before you start saying "what about ______".

Section 201(e), after the preceding paragraphs deal with conflicts in procuring items/goods/services, states the following:

Upon such approval, the Secretary of the resource department that made the finding may use the authority of section 101(a) of the Act, 50 U.S.C. App. 2071(a), to control the general distribution of any material (including applicable services) in the civilian market.( Source)

Whether it be poorly written or deliberately written in legalese in order to sound vague and unimportant in the hopes that this particular guise will assauge the fears of the commoner, this in effect gives all of those appointed officials the power to control anything listed under their respective areas. And who appoints those officials? The President. So - since this was written by the office of The President, signed by The President, and NOT voted on by Congress - I place the issue squarely and soley in his court, and thusly blame him and his office - where the blame SHOULD lay for this.

[tursiops]

I'm not going to get into Civics 101 with you. Blame whoever you want, for whatever you want.

Hey, I don't care for E.O.'s either. If Congress did its job, the E.O.'s would probably not be needed. And in the case above, if Congress doesn't like what the E.O. does, they can void the law it is implementing. Remember, what the law does (from Congress) is provide an authority to do something; the President then has to direct the agencies about the specifics. The President can only direct the agencies and the agency employees....not the citizens.

[dorminWS]

Uhhh….Turnips……………………..

In response to my last post you said:
………………………………………………………………………………
{dorminWS wrote:The "jump" is when you assume that that Mr. Obama's saying it makes it so. It doesn't.}

“No, the military and their surrogates the civilian police force will make it so.

Thats their duty and all. ”
…………………………………………………………………………………

Then, in response to CCFan’s last post, you said:
……………………………………………………………………………………..
“The President can only direct the agencies and the agency employees....not the citizens.”
………………………………………………………………………………………..

SO WHICH WAY IS IT, TURNIPS?

[tursiops]

Uhhh….Turnips……………………..

In response to my last post you said:
………………………………………………………………………………
{dorminWS wrote:The "jump" is when you assume that that Mr. Obama's saying it makes it so. It doesn't.}

“No, the military and their surrogates the civilian police force will make it so.

Thats their duty and all. ”
…………………………………………………………………………………

Then, in response to CCFan’s last post, you said:
……………………………………………………………………………………..
“The President can only direct the agencies and the agency employees....not the citizens.”
………………………………………………………………………………………..

SO WHICH WAY IS IT, TURNIPS?

The first quote is from Kruetz, not me.

[dorminWS]

Sorry. either you or Kreutz should be mad about being confused with one another. You guys sort it out.

[ratherfish]

Sorry. either you or Kreutz should be mad about being confused with one another. You guys sort it out.

Twin brothers of the same media matters mother!

[Kreutz]

Sorry. either you or Kreutz should be mad about being confused with one another. You guys sort it out.

Liberal hivemind. We are one. All will be assimilated.

Seriously though I stand by my claim this is a worrisome development. Ive been wrong many times before, so, hopefully this is another one.

[mamabearCali]

This is one of those things. Not necessarily liberal or conservative, just a threat to all citizens (aka according to this document serfs). The potential for tyranny grows and grows with every to her month.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

[ratherfish]

I hope we're allowed one more free election.