Virginia Gun Owners Forum - VGOF

totes6 wrote:

Jakeiscrazy wrote:Despite popular folk lure our schools are not "prayer free". Take it from me, I got to a public high school. And the administration is no more at fault than anyone else. It's called personal responsible for a reason. He did the crime he alone bears full responsibly.

Ok Jake, let me ask you this. If I tell you that you cannot lift a finger to defend yourself from an attack and if you do I will lock you up for a year. Then whose responsibility is it to keep you safe. Does it not become my responsibility to provide you protection? That is exactly what public schools have done today with their "Zero Tolerance" policies. If you are physically attacked and you lift one finger in self defense, then you can be expelled. Guess what that means, you get to start that grade all over again the following year and you are back under their thumb again. (Remember it is the government that requires you to go to school.)

As I said before that the student should be held accountable for his actions. But the administration should also be held accountable as well.

I think you have a miss understanding of zero tolerances policies. The Zero Tolerance policies for schools do not mandate expulsion. They just require some kind of suspension of both students involved. Rarely are students expelled from school and I personally have never heard of anyone being expelled because of fighting(it's very uncommon). In cases that I have seen of self defense most of the time the offender gets a few more days of suspension than the defender they are both suspended. Now don't get me wrong, I don't think it's okay to suspend someone for defending themselves but I also don't think it plays significantly into enabling a bully. This boy didn't care about getting suspended or even expelled. He killed other students. He had no regard for the laws or rules or anything else.

SN: The administration is not at fault for enforcing zero tolerance. They are just doing their job.

Jakeiscrazy wrote: I think you have a miss understanding of zero tolerances policies. The Zero Tolerance policies for schools do not mandate expulsion. They just require some kind of suspension of both students involved. Rarely are students expelled from school and I personally have never heard of anyone being expelled because of fighting(it's very uncommon). In cases that I have seen of self defense most of the time the offender gets a few more days of suspension than the defender they are both suspended. Now don't get me wrong, I don't think it's okay to suspend someone for defending themselves but I also don't think it plays significantly into enabling a bully. This boy didn't care about getting suspended or even expelled. He killed other students. He had no regard for the laws or rules or anything else.

SN: The administration is not at fault for enforcing zero tolerance. They are just doing their job.

I actually have a very good understanding of zero tolerance policies. Since I had to face down expulsion for defending myself. In the middle of class a student assaulted me with a pair of scissors. I was able to disarm the student rather easily and the student finally gave up after swinging at me for a few minutes and missing every time. And during this entire time the teacher never said a word. If I had known better I would have just shut up at that point. But I was the one that reported the incident to the school administration. Next thing I know the Principle is calling my parents and saying that I am being expelled. The principle finally backed down after some calls to the school board and explaining some things like failure to provide a safe learning environment, failure to the stop the fight, among others.
By the way the other student faced no responsibility for the fight, not even detention.

totes6 wrote:

Jakeiscrazy wrote: I think you have a miss understanding of zero tolerances policies. The Zero Tolerance policies for schools do not mandate expulsion. They just require some kind of suspension of both students involved. Rarely are students expelled from school and I personally have never heard of anyone being expelled because of fighting(it's very uncommon). In cases that I have seen of self defense most of the time the offender gets a few more days of suspension than the defender they are both suspended. Now don't get me wrong, I don't think it's okay to suspend someone for defending themselves but I also don't think it plays significantly into enabling a bully. This boy didn't care about getting suspended or even expelled. He killed other students. He had no regard for the laws or rules or anything else.

SN: The administration is not at fault for enforcing zero tolerance. They are just doing their job.

I actually have a very good understanding of zero tolerance policies. Since I had to face down expulsion for defending myself. In the middle of class a student assaulted me with a pair of scissors. I was able to disarm the student rather easily and the student finally gave up after swinging at me for a few minutes and missing every time. And during this entire time the teacher never said a word. If I had known better I would have just shut up at that point. But I was the one that reported the incident to the school administration. Next thing I know the Principle is calling my parents and saying that I am being expelled. The principle finally backed down after some calls to the school board and explaining some things like failure to provide a safe learning environment, failure to the stop the fight, among others.
By the way the other student faced no responsibility for the fight, not even detention.

That's not a function of a Zero Tolerance Policy because if it was the other student would have face similar treatment. That's personal bias on the part of the administrator.