Virginia Gun Owners Forum - VGOF

dorminWS wrote:Commerce is what runs our country. It is the enghine of our prosperity and world preminence. A sound understanding of and solid experience in some form of that is therefore a huge advantage and ought to be a prerequisite. This is simple common sense.

Once again, can we agree to disagree?

tursiops wrote:

dorminWS wrote:Commerce is what runs our country. It is the enghine of our prosperity and world preminence. A sound understanding of and solid experience in some form of that is therefore a huge advantage and ought to be a prerequisite. This is simple common sense.

Once again, can we agree to disagree?

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We can tolerate each other's dissimilar viewpoints. "Agree to disagree" is a linguistic reference to that. And of course I am perfectly willing to have you be as wrong as you can contrive to be, if nothiong else suits you.

But I'm curious. With what specifically in the the language quoted above do you disagree and what do you see as correct?

dorminWS wrote:The discussion was about staff and cabinet members, not presidents. Thruth is, nobody - no matter whart their credentials, can be POTUS and do the job alone. They must have a strong, able staff and cabinet. Running the country is not what either the President or the Congress does or can ever do. The3 most effective they can be is get out of the way and intervene only occasionally when it is absolutely necessary. Commerce is what runs our country. It is the enghine of our prosperity and world preminence. A sound understanding of and solid experience in some form of that is therefore a huge advantage and ought to be a prerequisite. This is simple common sense.

It seems right on the surface indeed. A country isn't a business though, runs more like a non-profit in that it still must meet obligations, take in and pay out money, but its not a for profit enterprise nor should be run like one.

Empirical evidence? An interesting concept with respect to such basic issues. What do you expect? An official report on a study done by some federal bureaucracy? By a conservative/liberal/libertarian thinktank?

Would you be surprised if lurking the bowels of some library there is in fact a 400 page report by some thinktank on this very subject? Those guys do, as the name suggests...think about all kinds of esoteric stuff.


Worth noting business experience doesn't automatically mean business success/ability.

Right Wall Street CEO's?

dorminWS wrote:And of course I am perfectly willing to have you be as wrong as you can contrive to be, if nothiong else suits you.

i hope you are just trying to be cute and clever with this remark, because if you are trying to Pi$$ me off you almost succeeded.

Kreutz wrote:
It seems right on the surface indeed. A country isn't a business though, runs more like a non-profit in that it still must meet obligations, take in and pay out money, but its not a for profit enterprise nor should be run like one. ?

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Didn't say it was. I said it was it's engine. It generates the income and Gross National Product. It feeds and pays wages to it's citizen/taxcpayers. A "country", I submit, is a structure that is ancillary to commerce and necessary only to make the world safe and orderly enough to enable and enhance it. Your initial reaction to this may be shock and/or scorn, but THINK about it.
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Kreutz wrote:
Would you be surprised if lurking the bowels of some library there is in fact a 400 page report by some thinktank on this very subject? Those guys do, as the name suggests...think about all kinds of esoteric stuff. ?

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I certainly would not. In fact, I assumed there were numerous such tomes extant. But the point was that none of them are authoritative because one side or the other would view them as biased.
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Kreutz wrote:
Worth noting business experience doesn't automatically mean business success/ability.

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I did not note it because I regard it as self-evident.
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Kreutz wrote: Right Wall Street CEO's?

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Yeah, like John Corzine.

tursiops wrote:

dorminWS wrote:And of course I am perfectly willing to have you be as wrong as you can contrive to be, if nothiong else suits you.

i hope you are just trying to be cute and clever with this remark, because if you are trying to Pi$$ me off you almost succeeded.

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tut, tut, turnips..........................

You say you want to agree to disagree, and then when I take you at your word and disagree with you in a very agreeable manner (with an eye-rolling smilie, no less), you go and threaten to get all P.O.'ed. You don't reckon you're wound a little too tight, do you?

Maybe I ought to just get MY panties in a wad about your very strong insinuation (indeed, tantamount to an outright accusation) that I WASN'T in fact being cute and clever and get all P. O.'ed, too.

Naah..... On second thought, that's just too much work for a shiftless redneck like me. Tell you what......... Just as Im willing to let you be as wrong as you can contrive to be; I'll be real big-hearted and stand back and give you plenty of room to be as P.O'ed as you can contrive to be if THAT'S the only thing that'll suit you.

Dormouse, I'll agree with you on one thing: you are very disagreeable.

dorminWS wrote: ................................................................
Didn't say it was. I said it was it's engine. It generates the income and Gross National Product. It feeds and pays wages to it's citizen/taxcpayers. A "country", I submit, is a structure that is ancillary to commerce and necessary only to make the world safe and orderly enough to enable and enhance it. Your initial reaction to this may be shock and/or scorn, but THINK about it.

That is a highly capitalistic view...I'm not shocked and I won't scorn it, but its a common enough view amongst many Americans. I do regretfully concede commerce is the core function of a society and the state should perform "the right amount" (no one will ever agree what that is) of regulation to ensure the system operates as smoothly as possible while minimizing external damages.

Yeah, like John Corzine.

Corslime learned well at Goldman Sachs.

allingeneral wrote:

SHMIV wrote:Well, come on, Gat. [...] I thought you had something against insulting those with whom you disagree?

+1

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That's true but I make an exception for the reality show pimp Trump. Here's a guy who says he was too busy to even vote for years, yet now he is so concerned that he has something to say worth hearing? I'm still waiting for this liar to produce the report from all those private eyes he said he sent to Hawaii. Remember his boast that they are finding out stuff that you won't believe? Then a few days later the President made a fool out of him causing him to slink back to his tower. Trump quickly found out that those guvmint dudes can kick ass, unlike the sycophants who kiss Trump's ass and tell him what a great guy he is.

Trump reminds me of what Molly Ivins once wrote: "He's a guy who was born on third base and thought he hit a triple". Politically Trump is a joke. Ron Paul and John Huntsman's are the only 2 Republicans seeking the Presidential nomination who had the balls to tell Trump that they were not going to be a part of the Trump clown show.

Now what do you suppose the odds are that the political clown in chief,Trump, will put his money where his mouth is, and mount a Presidential campaign.

Gat6

OakRidgeStars wrote:

tursiops wrote:This is an old email chain-letter, with made-up statistics.

Pretty sure that's what was also used to draft what we all know as "Obamacare"

After Obama & Co. destroys the greatest health care system in the world, maybe the Canadians will let us sneak across the border for some of that fine, free doctoring.

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Do you have some facts to objectively back up your claim that the Affordable Care Act which will not be fully enacted until 2014 will destroy the world's greatest health care system? Or is it a fact free opinion? Come to think of it, what supports your claim that we have the world's greatest health care system, by what measures?

As a matter of fact if you cared to look you would see Americans by the bus loads flowing across our Southern and Northern borders to load up on those less expensive prescription drugs. Prescription drugs are a significant part of any care health system.

Why are you watching the border for Americans going to Canada seeking free health care? You would be better off going to the airport where the number of Americans going abroad for health care is expected to increase from 75,000 in 2001 to almost 2 million in 2012.

The ka ching you're hearing are the cash registers ringing up payments from Americans seeking health care in countries like India, Thailand, Cuba, Costa Rica, Mexico, etc. Apparently increasing number of Americans are willing to go elsewhere for some health care. Telling millions of Americans that our health care system is the world's greatest is like telling people who can only afford a Kia Soul that a BMW is the world's greatest car. Why should they care since they can never buy a BMW.

The Affordable Health Care Act (AHCA) is in no way perfect, but it is a start. If you don't like the AHCA what do you like? Doing nothing is not an option because with no changes public and private health care cost increases are unsustainable. BTW what are the specific provisions of AHCA that you find so offensive?

Gat6

AlanM wrote:From a later post on the other forum:

Supporting info here:

http://aconservativeteacher.blogspot.co ... nt-of.html

http://news.investors.com/Article/54365 ... -World.htm

http://thecabin.net/interact/opinion/co ... 9s-cabinet

Oh here we go...found the exact link:

Barry Soetoro – Obama’s Cabinet Has Almost NO Business Experience

http://www.morningliberty.com/2010/05/2 ... xperience/

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While the cited figure is bogus, your point is? Other than an answer to some trivia question, the percentage of cabinet officials with a business background means absolutely nothing. It is not predictive of anything for the economy either positive or negative. If it was predictive, the Bush administration economically would have been great. Instead job growth was essentially zero, the worse ever. And the overall economy tanked without the President, the Vice President or any of his advisers having a clue what to do.

The idea that businessmen have some special qualities, or knowledge to govern, or manage an economy is elitist BS pushed by Wall Street and CEO types to justify the nonsense that only this select group is fit to lead and therefore worthy of the enormous salaries and bonuses they receive.

Gat6

gatlingun6 wrote:The ka ching you're hearing are the cash registers ringing up payments from Americans seeking health care in countries like India, Thailand, Cuba, Costa Rica, Mexico, etc. Apparently increasing number of Americans are willing to go elsewhere for some health care. Telling millions of Americans that our health care system is the world's greatest is like telling people who can only afford a Kia Soul that a BMW is the world's greatest car. Why should they care since they can never buy a BMW.

Insurers are starting to pay for foreign surgeries and hospital stay. You pay the airfare. The insurer saves cash and often airfare to India is still lower than the average deductible, so you come out ahead too.

Medical tourism its called.

The US health system ranking varies based on who ranks it and what criteria they use, but it's not #1 in any ranking I've seen. I think one study has us ranked 37th in the world in terms of healthcare. I do know we're dead last out of industrialized nations in terms of infant mortality.

We have big problems with access, and the outcomes aren't very good either based on what we spend.

But we are the most expensive! You don't always get what we pay for.

Jakeiscrazy wrote:

gatlingun6 wrote:The following has been attributed to Donald Trump:
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Let me get this straight . . .

We're going to be "gifted" with a health care
plan we are forced to purchase and fined if we don't,

which purportedly covers at least
ten million more people, without adding a single new doctor, but provides for 16,000 new IRS agents,

written by a committee whose chairman
says he doesn't understand it,

passed by a Congress that didn't read it but
exempted themselves from it,

and signed by a Dumbo President who smokes,

with funding administered by a treasury chief who
didn't pay his taxes,

for which we'll be taxed for four years before any
benefits take effect,

by a government which has
already bankrupted Social Security and Medicare,

all to be overseen by a surgeon general
who is obese ,

and financed by a country that's broke!!!!!

'What the hell could possibly go wrong?

In Short

Not a Thing that I can think of

Well you asked!!

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wow, the gutless reality show host is pontificating nonsense once again, the jokes on anyone who believes this coward. The little man Trumpie can only run his mouth from the side lines. Of course having been put in his insignificant place by the President that's all he dares do, is run his mouth.

I say to Trump talk is cheap, put your money where your politically dumbo mouth is, and put your hat in the ring.

How do we know when it's close to time for his reality show to start? Why it's when the TV pimp starts running his mouth.

Gat6[/quote]
You insult him for running his mouth from the side line yet your doing the same thing! Are you throwing your hat into the ring? The only diffance between you talking and him talking is he has a platform that people hear him from.[/quote]
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Let me see Trump is well known for insulting people. His reality show is based on insulting people. He has insulted the President, Congressman Paul, John Huntsman, and others too numerous to mention. He hurls invectives at people whenever he likes. It's always his way or the highway. So you are saying he can't be criticized in the same nasty manner in which he criticizes others? Something has obviously gotten lost in translation.

I'm not the one running around boasting that I'm running for President, or trying to intimidate the republican party with he might run for President if they chose someone he doesn't like. The guy is so arrogant and ego-maniacal that he threatens an entire political party? So no we are not doing the same thing. In fact would we even be discussing Trump if he had not played rope a dope with the America people over running for President?

Trump is a political buffoon who has proven over and over that in terms of politics he doesn't know what the hell he is talking about. Again where is all this stunning information his private investigators found out about President Obama in Hawaii. We have not heard a peep from him since the President put him in his place. With Trump I'm simply speaking the truth, he is a narcissistic, arrogant, bully. Fortunately he is finding out that, unlike his crew, there are politicians and others who won't march up to NYC and kiss his ass, to paraphrase John Huntsman.

I'm not saying a thing that others are not saying about Trump, and many of those comments are coming from people who know him best. So what's the problem when I say it? My comments are rather benign considering what some have said about him.

Finally I certainly don't need a civics lesson from Trump, a guy who admitted that he was too busy to even vote for years.

Gat6