Virginia Gun Owners Forum - VGOF

"It would be interesting to see any set of statistics involving 10mm stopping power, but I have searched and just can't find any good stats for stopping power."

That's 'cause if you shoot 'em with a 10mm there isn't enough left of 'em to study.

Seriously, though, that's an interesting way of interpreting the statistics.

AppleaDay wrote: That's 'cause if you shoot 'em with a 10mm there isn't enough left of 'em to study.

That's what I keep telling myself!

I concur that ANY caliber at a close distance in massive numbers will do a good job...

Hence why I carry a "Mouse gun".

Recognizing the limitations of the .22, I still carry one on occasion and plan around said limitations.

i personally would rather get shot by a .45 then a .22lr. A .22cal will penatrate and then bounce around until your jelly...a .45 will hit and do its damage and then its done.

10 rounds of a .22LR in yer noggin makes you a blender brain.

Here is an interesting article from Rob Pincus. He now favors the 9mm over the 40 S&W...

http://www.imakenews.com/valhalla/e_art ... 7QPlVl%2Cw

spadesofcolumbia wrote:i personally would rather get shot by a .45 then a .22lr. A .22cal will penatrate and then bounce around until your jelly...a .45 will hit and do its damage and then its done.

An excellent reason to carry a .45. Convince a .22 wielding attacker to trade up to the .45 and shoot with it...or just preemptively shoot yourself with the .45 and convince the attacker that the .45 did a good enough job.

I will concur with Kreutz. This is the most civil conversation I have seen when it comes to stopping power!

Usually it boils down to one caliber over another, when in fact? It's SHOT PLACEMENT/DISTANCE/WEIGHT OF ROUND/ATTACKERS MENTALITY/SHOOTERS MENTALITY/SPEED.

Reverenddel wrote:I will concur with Kreutz. This is the most civil conversation I have seen when it comes to stopping power!

Usually it boils down to one caliber over another, when in fact? It's SHOT PLACEMENT/DISTANCE/WEIGHT OF ROUND/ATTACKERS MENTALITY/SHOOTERS MENTALITY/SPEED.

Sad part is dude I wasn't exaggerating. I'm sure we've all seen this topic descend into the land of nonsense on other forums, invariably by people with no idea wtf theyre talking about anyway extolling the virtues of x bullet while criticizing y bullet.

Now, I am faaaaar from Mr Gun Expert; but I have read some articles written by actual gun experts and gunfight survivors, and the main message I came across with was, like you said, shot placement/accuracy is king, and the vast majority of these sudden violent handgun engagements happen at grappling range(point blank) or no more than seven yards.

a person could yell and scream all day long about weights and velocitys and any other math equation out there on trajectory...but this is the real world with x factors and variables that a person just cant imagin...its all comes down to survival and reliablility...forget about the caliber and start thinkin about the gun because shes the one doin the work, the bullet just has to go bang

Agreed! Four shots of a .45ACP random in the area BEHIND the attacker is not NEARLY as good at ten shots from a .22LR in the head!

Just random question, what's the data on the .357 SIG? I haven't heard much about it, but the RPD carrys them... I think.

If you haven't already seen it, this guy has done a lot of testing and posts the videos of his results. It started with seeing what calibers will go through an interior wall and has now grown to a pretty big site...

http://www.theboxotruth.com/

Reverenddel wrote:Agreed! Four shots of a .45ACP random in the area BEHIND the attacker is not NEARLY as good at ten shots from a .22LR in the head!

A hit with a .22 is better than a miss from a .45...

Reverenddel wrote: Just random question, what's the data on the .357 SIG? I haven't heard much about it, but the RPD carrys them... I think.

RPD? Rappahanock? Richmond? Virginia State Police uses .357 Sig... in the link to the study, the author lumps .357 together - .357 magnum and .357 sig...

Science, scientists, engineers, studies, experiments, etc.

Coffee is bad for you and gives you cancer (just 4 or 5 years ago it seems this was the result of a scientific study).

Eggs are bad for you (several years prior to the coffee BS this was all over the TV and "news" publications).

Catalytic converteors on cars make for cleaner emissions (let's not talk about the stuff the "cats" put out).

High speed on the interstates is a major cause of highway deaths (and yet now, as the speeds are raised well over the old 55 mph limit in many states traffic fatalities are decreasing every year.)

All I know is Sgt. York (WW1 in Europe) and Sgt. Baker (WW2 in the Pacific) used a 1911 in .45 acp to drop enemy squads advancing on their positions with one shot each. Sgt. York got 7 and Sgt. Baker got 8. And with that old unreliable 230 grain hardball, too.

I'll stick to my big bullets, thank you. I do like the fast moving 38 caliber bullets, too, but that's more of a "feeling" with no basis in military history.

Oh, both the Sgts. mentioned above received the Medal of Honor for their actions on those days they were out numbered and used the 1911 to destroy those enemy soldiers. The citations for the Medal of Honor winners from WW1 on till the 1911 and .45 acp were replaced contain many instances of its effectiveness in the hands of a man who knows how to put the bullets where they need to go.

Chasbo00 wrote:Here is an interesting article from Rob Pincus. He now favors the 9mm over the 40 S&W...

http://www.imakenews.com/valhalla/e_art ... 7QPlVl%2Cw

I've long been a proponent of 9mm as a good caliber, particularly for a first gun. Ammo for 9mm is cheaper and your ability to effectively use it grows exponentially with practice. I've said it before, but I'll say it again.

Choose a common SD caliber which you shoot well with a modern HP design from a major manufacturer then practice, practice, practice...

That's a 95%+ solution.

M1A4ME wrote:Science, scientists, engineers, studies, experiments, etc.

Coffee is bad for you and gives you cancer (just 4 or 5 years ago it seems this was the result of a scientific study).

Eggs are bad for you (several years prior to the coffee BS this was all over the TV and "news" publications).

Catalytic converteors on cars make for cleaner emissions (let's not talk about the stuff the "cats" put out).

High speed on the interstates is a major cause of highway deaths (and yet now, as the speeds are raised well over the old 55 mph limit in many states traffic fatalities are decreasing every year.)

All I know is Sgt. York (WW1 in Europe) and Sgt. Baker (WW2 in the Pacific) used a 1911 in .45 acp to drop enemy squads advancing on their positions with one shot each. Sgt. York got 7 and Sgt. Baker got 8. And with that old unreliable 230 grain hardball, too.

I'll stick to my big bullets, thank you. I do like the fast moving 38 caliber bullets, too, but that's more of a "feeling" with no basis in military history.

Oh, both the Sgts. mentioned above received the Medal of Honor for their actions on those days they were out numbered and used the 1911 to destroy those enemy soldiers. The citations for the Medal of Honor winners from WW1 on till the 1911 and .45 acp were replaced contain many instances of its effectiveness in the hands of a man who knows how to put the bullets where they need to go.

I understand what your trying to say...and i hate to say this myself...but out of all my customers, its the military guys that are the most ignorant about ballistics and gun related subjects...military guys use guns that the military gives them...and the military doesnt always know whats best but whats most affordable.

"General George S. Patton owned a Remington 51 and was thought to favor the weapon."